It was worth repeating.Hey this was my reply get your own opinion!!!
It was worth repeating.Hey this was my reply get your own opinion!!!
I don’t disagree with any of what you said, so in the interest of keeping the conversation going, and also moderately staying on topic with the trophy line series, everything you expressed can be accomplished with stock gear. You have to be even more meticulous about the details, but you can do it with stock gear. All of the big buck killers I’ve met in person wouldn’t be able to tell you where to buy a stealth strip, nor would they even know that it wasn’t some thing lewd or suggestive lol. Obviously, that’s a small sample size and not a very reliable statistic, but again, I’m throwing it out there in the interest of conversation. If you are one of those guys, like I aspire to be one day, the stock versions of these trophy line products are more than sufficient if you were already on top of the details. My very original points on the matter are just that, TL is one of the companies that FINALLY made some stock gear that is baseline quiet and light and strong, and the FIRST thing many guys jumped on is the noise. It’s kinda crazy IMO.100% of the guys I know that consistently target and kill specific bucks are OCD about every single detail of every aspect of their gear and hunts. Can you get away with some noise or not paying attention to every detail and still kill good deer, sure. But it is, imo, not going to happen with consistency and certainly not if you are targeting a specific deer and hunting it with a bow. Hunting mature bucks and/or specific deer with a bow is absolutely a game of details; scent, sound, tree picking, thermals/wind, feed, does, bedding, hunting pressure, access, egress, accuracy with bow, composure during shot opp, etc., etc. Lots of details and they all matter if the objective starts getting focused and specific. If just killing deer is the goal, you can get away with a lot more, at times.
What I can tell you is that for most of my bowhunting journey it has been about shooting enough deer each year to keep the freezer full. If a nice buck got in the way, awesome. But big bucks was not at all my focus, I like shooting deer, all of em. The older I get the more I want to get better at killing mature deer and/or targeting specific deer. The more I have adopted things other guys that consistently kill big, mature bucks do, the more success I have had on mature bucks. This season, I actually made some changes to my scent management and they paid dividends throughout the season. The one thing I have not done is put much effort into quieting all of my gear, something the guys I know all do. Before next season, I plan to have everything stripped. Here is how a buddy that has multiple walls full of giants explained it to me when we were talking about getting in and climbing quietly. He said(paraphrasing) a little clink or clank every once in a while may not matter for killing deer but in any given season, you may not get more than one opportunity on a big deer and there is no reason to risk screwing that opportunity up because of being too lazy to silence gear. His perspective is it's not about increasing the odds of success, it is about doing everything possible to eliminate the odds of failure on the one or maybe two chances a year that you might have to kill a target deer. Increasing the odds of success is about the hunting or being in the right spot at the right time. Eliminating the odds of failure is about the killing and not taking any chances on things that could ruin an opportunity. Those are the things that are the difference between good hunters and great hunters. I would like to feel like I have reached the great level before I am done but I have a long ways to go.I don’t disagree with any of what you said, so in the interest of keeping the conversation going, and also moderately staying on topic with the trophy line series, everything you expressed can be accomplished with stock gear. You have to be even more meticulous about the details, but you can do it with stock gear. All of the big buck killers I’ve met in person wouldn’t be able to tell you where to buy a stealth strip, nor would they even know that it wasn’t some thing lewd or suggestive lol. Obviously, that’s a small sample size and not a very reliable statistic, but again, I’m throwing it out there in the interest of conversation. If you are one of those guys, like I aspire to be one day, the stock versions of these trophy line products are more than sufficient if you were already on top of the details. My very original points on the matter are just that, TL is one of the companies that FINALLY made some stock gear that is baseline quiet and light and strong, and the FIRST thing many guys jumped on is the noise. It’s kinda crazy IMO.
But we’re just shooting the poops at this point, and if strips and tape and wrapping make you feel like you’re increasing your odds, then you are. I’m not one to argue with psychosomatic cause and effect in the deer woods; it’s definitely a legitimate strategy that positive mentality and gearing up in your way breeds confidence which leads to success.
Again, irrefutable points. I bolded my biggest takeaway; I expressed in a different thread that I believe we don’t stack the odds in our favor per se, we stack our workarounds—to the compounded failures that inevitably occur—in our favor, because even with all the technical advantages we have, the deer are still way far in the lead for “favoring” their odds at NOT getting arrowed. Not a question of positive gains, more a question of minimizing negative gains.What I can tell you is that for most of my bowhunting journey it has been about shooting enough deer each year to keep the freezer full. If a nice buck got in the way, awesome. But big bucks was not at all my focus, I like shooting deer, all of em. The older I get the more I want to get better at killing mature deer and/or targeting specific deer. The more I have adopted things other guys that consistently kill big, mature bucks do, the more success I have had on mature bucks. This season, I actually made some changes to my scent management and they paid dividends throughout the season. The one thing I have not done is put much effort into quieting all of my gear, something the guys I know all do. Before next season, I plan to have everything stripped. Here is how a buddy that has multiple walls full of giants explained it to me when we were talking about getting in and climbing quietly. He said(paraphrasing) a little clink or clank every once in a while may not matter for killing deer but in any given season, you may not get more than one opportunity on a big deer and there is no reason to risk screwing that opportunity up because of being too lazy to silence gear. His perspective is it's not about increasing the odds of success, it is about doing everything possible to eliminate the odds of failure on the one or maybe two chances a year that you might have to kill a target deer. Increasing the odds of success is about the hunting or being in the right spot at the right time. Eliminating the odds of failure is about the killing and not taking any chances on things that could ruin an opportunity. Those are the things that are the difference between good hunters and great hunters. I would like to feel like I have reached the great level before I am done but I have a long ways to go.
I didnt think they were all that loud either for what he was doing. I like the look of the stick and will be excited to see if they release a mission size platform in that new material.Again, irrefutable points. I bolded my biggest takeaway; I expressed in a different thread that I believe we don’t stack the odds in our favor per se, we stack our workarounds—to the compounded failures that inevitably occur—in our favor, because even with all the technical advantages we have, the deer are still way far in the lead for “favoring” their odds at NOT getting arrowed. Not a question of positive gains, more a question of minimizing negative gains.
Now, as far as the second bolded line, does taking the extra time to pack your stock sticks/gear more quietly, walking as quietly as possible, not slamming your truck door (I ain’t stealth stripping that thing lol), smothering your coughs and sneezes, slowly closing your carabiners, etc. qualify as not being too lazy to take the time to silence your gear? Not asking to be cheeky, it’s literally my only counterpoint, kinda, to your entire reply. To me, that qualifies.
And for the record, YES, I believe you should be quiet as a mouse at all times, to the best of your ability and your gear’s safe performance.
Edit: staying on-topic (TL Hyperlite), I didn’t actually think they sounded that loud. That’s why I went on my soapbox ride in the first place. I actually think this is a huge leap for folks who don’t like to tweak their gear a lot, and besides them already being pretty quiet, the lighter weight also leads to quieter stacking just as a byproduct of not working as hard to be ginger with your manipulation of metallic components.
Oh man, a mission sized platform in that series might be the only way I’d think about selling my mission.I didnt think they were all that loud either for what he was doing. I like the look of the stick and will be excited to see if they release a mission size platform in that new material.
If I had known we wuz fightin, I would have used different tactics.Oh man, a mission sized platform in that series might be the only way I’d think about selling my mission.
Also, as a martial arts teacher, I appreciate getting into “fights” that don’t cause bruising, breakage, or lacerations. That’s why I come to SH.com and pick gear beefs .
That’s how I get you. I lull you into a place of trust and comfort with my jabs of verbiage. Can’t tell where those end and the real jabs begin. Very Ali of me.If I had known we wuz fightin, I would have used different tactics.
I am hoping they wise up and give us 4”+ of toe room on these sticks. That 3.4” I am not liking.
You’ve been stewing on this reply for what, two days? Cheers bruv. That’s a level of commitment I don’t have in my blood. I’m gunna choose to pretend there’s no personal attacks here, cuz I generally get along with everyone and I’m sure we’d get along in person over a fire…Given that civility and respect were exchanged with others even in the spirit of discordant conversation, I don’t think I even need to reply to you because it’s pretty clear you’re not in the mood to “hear” that anyone might have a different experience than you or a dissenting opinion on gear that’s popularly promoted, but i do feel the need to just summarize what you may have missed in the days it took you to come back and concoct these obvious ribs toward me:Can we get this thread back on track with discussion about a new piece of gear?? Beaten this horse to death. One guy doesn't like stealth strips, thinks he's a ninja, and what everyone else is doing to be stealthy is a waste of time, money and effort. His wife may be right. I don't know. Let's move on to something else...
I agree, that’s why I like the LW style standoffs. Another point I’m eager to see reviewed.I’m not a fan of the v shaped type of standoffs the hyperlite sticks have vs standoffs that have multiple points of contact like the one sticks or the beast sticks.
I will certainly be curious to hear whether or not the standoffs are a problem once the sticks are actually released. I spent the last season hunting with the lone wolf double steps with just the four points of contact and was a little bit leery as to how well they would do. I was pleasantly surprised at how well they grip the tree and I never had any kick outs or issues with foot space. Admittedly, I only wear a size 9 1/2 boot.I agree, that’s why I like the LW style standoffs. Another point I’m eager to see reviewed.
I will certainly be curious to hear whether or not the standoffs are a problem once the sticks are actually released. I spent the last season hunting with the lone wolf double steps with just the four points of contact and was a little bit leery as to how well they would do. I was pleasantly surprised at how well they grip the tree and I never had any kick outs or issues with foot space. Admittedly, I only wear a size 9 1/2 boot.
I will certainly be curious to hear whether or not the standoffs are a problem once the sticks are actually released. I spent the last season hunting with the lone wolf double steps with just the four points of contact and was a little bit leery as to how well they would do. I was pleasantly surprised at how well they grip the tree and I never had any kick outs or issues with foot space. Admittedly, I only wear a size 9 1/2 boot.