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Who has snorted the Fairy Dust?

boyne bowhunter said:
Honestly I'm using an EZ-V as a sort of single pin sight. I always align the same two horizontal lines with my target and then stare at my point of aim with it centered between them. It helps me in two ways. First my old eyes have some issues seeing a pin and target at the same time. I really like the open view I feel like I have using the EZ-V.

Second it helps me with target panic. Since I'm not trying to time a release with the pin coinciding with the target its easier to just pull through on my own time.

I rarely set up to shoot more than 30yds so the "single distance" method works just fine for me.
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Rules don't apply to legends!

Hahaha I know you don't want to admit I'm right on the single pin, so you can use the single pin disguised as an EZV if you want :wink:


I noticed a similar phenomenon at short distances with the EZV: My groups were tighter at known distances under 30 yards than they were with a pin. I mean, we're talking about 2" versus 2.5", nothing dramatic. But certainly consistent across a lot of shots.

I have a theory on why, and it seems backed up by some evidence. I think it's because at 10 yards, my pin is about a quarter of the size of the 2" bull on my target. I'm trying to micro adjust before shooting, and "aim small". With the EZV I can't do that. I'm subconsciously trying to hold the bull in imaginary center, but I'm not actually thinking or deciding through it. It's just happening.

At any known distance past 40 yards, my groups with EZV start to fall apart and get unshootable at 70/80 yards. At 80 yards my pin is as big as the 6" bull on the target. The shooting gets back to more "feel" over "aim". I routinely get surprised when I shoot 5 arrows at 100 yards and I just KNOW 2 or 3 of the shots weren't "good" shots, and that I'll be barely on the bag. Then I walk up to the target and there's 5 arrows in a 12" group.
 
Plebe said:
No, it's like Bernoulli.

But what does it really mean for arrow penetration?

It seems to advocate the slower the better. We know it's just a bit more nuanced.

This is also exactly the kind of stuff I want to look at, btw.
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As fast as is necessary, and not a scooch faster!

I agree, another reason the circular argument gets old is because it distracts from some pretty interesting stuff.



I wonder if bows can shoot fast enough, to have the increase in resistance due to speed start to matter to a large degree. I have a guess that the difference between 250fps and 300fps given a 500gr arrow and very sharp COC head is immaterial, with regard to this specific topic. But it's pure intuition. And those can't be trusted...
 
kyler1945 said:
Rules don't apply to legends!
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Now that's some funny stuff there!!!! Not even in my own mind. :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:

kyler1945 said:
Hahaha I know you don't want to admit I'm right on the single pin, so you can use the single pin disguised as an EZV if you want :wink:
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You may not believe this but up to the point of trying the EZ-V I had been using a single pin sight for 20 years. I absolutely, 100% agree with your stance on the single pin. In the heat of moment there's no time for ranging or worrying about how far the deer is, or even trying to remember which pin to use. For the ranges I'm willing to shoot a single pin works just fine. The only reason I like the EZ-V is it opens the field of view for me. My old eyes have trouble "aiming small" when I can't see the pin and target at the same time. :tearsofjoy:
 
kyler1945 said:
This really annoys me. It comes from the belief that your customers are dumb. Because you think they're dumb, you think you can convince them that a faster bow will kill more deer. And this works. But because you think your customers are dumb, you are blind to option B: Telling your customers the bow is more efficient than a previous model/generates more KE. You still get the "I don't want to think about it" crowd, and the "my bow hits HARDER than your bow" crowd (which replaces my bow is faster than your bow crowd).

I know this will work because look how much money was made and spent on "my arrow is heavier than yours, and has 600 hours of design and testing time in it" in the last five years?

So, while I don't like the approach to business (or policy for that matter) that your customers are dumb, I then come back to the camp fire, and repeatedly hear the tribe say really dumb things, and show contempt for people who use big words or maths to help them, and outright ignore the truth because it would cause them to appear disloyal to the ingroup they've chosen.

It's a fun circle. And when viewed from a few feet away, is quite entertaining.
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You basically came full circle in that comment, to my firm position in life, that most people are dumb.
 
99c33a371b5464aeeaa936a9fc98962e.jpg

Shield on a hog my buddy killed this weekend with my prototype head. 1 3/8” cut diameter three blade, a touch over 500 grain taw, 48# longbow. Arrow went through that hide and ribs and stopped at the ribs on the off side so no exit hole. Hog went 76 yards gps measured with a no bending over blood trail.


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0eb9e0cca2d1dedd848d2e568cca6bcc.jpg

Where the head stopped off side.

Would a smaller cutting diameter 2 blade have exited? Probably. Would it have yielded an easy to follow blood trail? Maybe, maybe not. The main point though is that like most things when 2 sides argue from the extreme, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. That is full chest cavity penetration on a 230# hog, with a fairly wide 3 blade head with a front end not optimally built for penetration, that was fired from a 48# longbow on a 515-520 grain arrow. Yet folks are concerned about adequate penetration on whitetails with sub 650 grain arrows shot from compounds. Just my opinion here but folks should stop looking for answers in what other people write and go shoot stuff. If the current setup does not perform the way you would like change one component and shoot some more stuff. Keep tweaking your setup one piece at a time until you find the system that yields the results that you want consistently.
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BTaylor said:
0eb9e0cca2d1dedd848d2e568cca6bcc.jpg

Where the head stopped off side.

Would a smaller cutting diameter 2 blade have exited? Probably. Would it have yielded an easy to follow blood trail? Maybe, maybe not. The main point though is that like most things when 2 sides argue from the extreme, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. That is full chest cavity penetration on a 230# hog, with a fairly wide 3 blade head with a front end not optimally built for penetration, that was fired from a 48# longbow on a 515-520 grain arrow. Yet folks are concerned about adequate penetration on whitetails with sub 650 grain arrows shot from compounds. Just my opinion here but folks should stop looking for answers in what other people write and go shoot stuff. If the current setup does not perform the way you would like change one component and shoot some more stuff. Keep tweaking your setup one piece at a time until you find the system that yields the results that you want consistently.
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I don't want to experiment-tweak- experiment on live critters.
It certainly is not fair to them or ethical.
And I'm not going to attempt to hunt what could possibly be a buck of my lifetime with gear that I'm still tinkering with.
The whole point of Ashby, and later the RF, was/is to eliminate sub standard equipment so we don't have to experiment on live animals.
 
Horn said:
Well. Found out how ignorant I am today and there'll be no cutting my arrows down( much anyway) I had said 27 DL because that's what the sticker on the limb says.... Turns out the cam is 30 DL. So bonus for me not having T-Rex arms lol.

I'm checking on the at brace height cam orientation but let's not hold our breath, I don't think he knew what I was asking about and I'm not able to explain it yet myself. ( Asked Mathews directly and they sent me a link to thier dealer locator... It is at a mathews dealer now)

Also I'm going to try a little lighter arrow to get my speed bumped up and a flatter trajectory. The 550s do penetration great though! Pic is 60# 30dl @ 20 yards into a crossbow target. 125gr helix. Other 2 arrows are 125 field points in the same arrows
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I’m assuming you don’t know that bag targets are not for broadheads. They are going to not only zip completely through it, but they are going to destroy it too.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
I don't want to experiment-tweak- experiment on live critters.
It certainly is not fair to them or ethical.
And I'm not going to attempt to hunt what could possibly be a buck of my lifetime with gear that I'm still tinkering with.
The whole point of Ashby, and later the RF, was/is to eliminate sub standard equipment so we don't have to experiment on live animals.
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I know I was bowhunting well before the first Ashby study was released and am pretty sure you were as well. Were you shooting that style setup from the very beginning? I certainly was not. I wasnt shooting a light setup at all but it was certainly not Ashby styled. I tried to for a bit to go to a lighter setup to gain speed for flatter trajectory. The results were inconsistent so I moved back in the direction of what had always worked. I get your point about not experimenting on game but if any aspect of a setup changes, the next shot at an animal is just that and the only way we learn how our individual setup is going to work is by shooting game.
 
Jimdude said:
I’m assuming you don’t know that bag targets are not for broadheads. They are going to not only zip completely through it, but they are going to destroy it too.
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Thanks for the advice. Actually I do know, I just don't care about that target very much. I did buy a foam target the other day though.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
I don't want to experiment-tweak- experiment on live critters.
It certainly is not fair to them or ethical.
And I'm not going to attempt to hunt what could possibly be a buck of my lifetime with gear that I'm still tinkering with.
The whole point of Ashby, and later the RF, was/is to eliminate sub standard equipment so we don't have to experiment on live animals.
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I believe the RF does exactly this on pigs. He literally says he “tests” on pigs.
 
Oh wow. That’s up there lol. Are your shooting traditional
 
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