Why don't yall 2TC?

[Red Beard]

I just started fooling with this a month or two ago. Here is what I’ve found.

First, climbing rope versus amsteel blue made moving the tethers much easier. Amsteel really grabs the tree and hangs up on bark and such.

Second, a leg band is a great add on. I tried it with out and had a hard time staying away from the tree without it. Making moving my foot tether harder.

The third things is, you have to have the main tether with your leg band and shortened bridge adjusted correctly. Meaning enough pressure on the leg band to give stability. Then adjust you bridge tether that it just starts pulling tight as you load the leg band with your weight.


Fourth, I think the first impulse is to adjust the leg band and bridge Prussics that you can’t get enough distance from the tree to easily unload and move the foot tether.

Fifth, for me to easily move the foot tether, I had to have it connected to my foot versus removing it every time. The time savings was incredible.

And finally, climb with knee pads on! It makes all the difference in the world.

Then, you just got to practice. Then practice more.


FWIW, anyone who says they think the two tether system isn’t fast, is totally uninformed and hasn’t tried it. I am not very quick at it. However, Scott Adkins has a video where he tethers in, climbs 20 feet, climbs down and unhooks in 3:41. Nothing out there is that fast.

So, tie that foot tether to your foot. Use climbing rope if amsteel isn’t your thing
Adjust everything properly before leaving the ground, use a leg band, and practice. It’s easier then any method. And, Trust your saddle and load it up while climbing if you get fatigued.

So well articulated! Thank you!

 

[useyourbow]

I just started fooling with this a month or two ago. Here is what I’ve found.

First, climbing rope versus amsteel blue made moving the tethers much easier. Amsteel really grabs the tree and hangs up on bark and such.

Second, a leg band is a great add on. I tried it with out and had a hard time staying away from the tree without it. Making moving my foot tether harder.

The third things is, you have to have the main tether with your leg band and shortened bridge adjusted correctly. Meaning enough pressure on the leg band to give stability. Then adjust you bridge tether that it just starts pulling tight as you load the leg band with your weight.


Fourth, I think the first impulse is to adjust the leg band and bridge Prussics that you can’t get enough distance from the tree to easily unload and move the foot tether.

Fifth, for me to easily move the foot tether, I had to have it connected to my foot versus removing it every time. The time savings was incredible.

And finally, climb with knee pads on! It makes all the difference in the world.

Then, you just got to practice. Then practice more.


FWIW, anyone who says they think the two tether system isn’t fast, is totally uninformed and hasn’t tried it. I am not very quick at it. However, Scott Adkins has a video where he tethers in, climbs 20 feet, climbs down and unhooks in 3:41. Nothing out there is that fast.

So, tie that foot tether to your foot. Use climbing rope if amsteel isn’t your thing
Adjust everything properly before leaving the ground, use a leg band, and practice. It’s easier then any method. And, Trust your saddle and load it up while climbing if you get fatigued.

Do you have a link to the video?

 

[Exhumis]

With all the climbing methods available now, and the hundreds of doll hairs being thrown around to achieve the lightest system in the galaxy, I'm wondering why more folks haven't taken to Two Tether Climbing. Some may call it walking on spaghetti strings (my buddy @Weldabeast), but there are a few nuts around here that have become very efficient with it.

For me, an ascending/descending method with minimal buy-in cost that can be stuffed into a cargo pocket is one that's hard to beat. However, I understand that it may not be for everyone and that's exactly what I'd like to explore in this thread. If you've tried 2TC and walked away from it for some reason, would you share why? What didn't work for you? What didn't you like about it? What did you like? And if you've never tried it, what is keeping you from giving it a go?

Maybe together, we can share some tips and/or tricks that will encourage you to try it, or try it again!

@always89y

Man I’ve seen you climb and it’s pretty high speed low drag but as for me I’m too uncoordinated, too inflexible and too fat. Maybe if I can get skinnier and more flexible I’ll give it a go.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Can you or anybody else elaborate on that please?

Yes. If you adjust the bridge tether to loose, you hang by the leg band only. Which naturally will sink your butt lower. Resulting in you wanting to keep the foot tether loaded for stability. However, If you load the bridge ‘Biner with a small fraction of weight in your adjustment, you will put your knee against the tree instead. Creating several more inches to work with between you and the tree. Your butt will be higher at rest too. Allowing you to take a bigger step with your leg tether. Also, adjust both Prussics on your main tether to allow you to get that tether as high above your head as possible when moving it as you climb. To low and it doesn’t give you enough slack and keeps you pulled tight to the tree.

If you’ve watched Jerry transition on his you tube channel, you’ll see a guy just like everyone else. He built the system, walks out to a tree, tethers in and climbs. While looking modestly graceful. However, watching his latest videos, he makes it look very easy. You too will progress just like that if you practice. Red Beard made it look ridiculously easy in the video I watched of him. I suspect he didn’t video his first attempt. lol.

Neither exactly mimics Scott Adkins. For example, Jerry doesn’t tie into the foot tether. He steps up, hooks the tree with his leg band leg, moves his main tether up as far as he can, tightens his safe rock, then removes his foot from the foot tether and places both knees against the tree allowing his saddle to float him like he was one sticking. He then Adjusts the foot tether up, places his left foot back in it, locks his foot to the tree preventing a kick out, and stands up to repeat the process.

initially, I’d guess it was taking his 10-12 minutes to get up to height and setup. I’m betting he’s doing it in 5 or 6 minutes now with very little effort. It’s just practice.

I guess why I told you all this is because everyone will do things their way with the 2 tether system. The main thing is you have proper tethers dedicated to the system. You use a backup bridge prussic on your leg band tether. And you practice enough to do it the way you are comfortable with. There is nothing wrong with not tying into the foot tether. And, if you don’t like the stability of your toes, use your knees to stay off the tree while moving the foot tether.

You got two guys on this thread that make it look like butter. I’m getting pretty decent at it myself. And, I promise if I can do it, So can you.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Do you have a link to the video?

Red Beard, Jerry, and Scott Adkins all have videos on you tube. I can’t remember how I found Red Beards. Jerry Grose has a channel under that name. So does Scott Adkins. All three are great references to watch.

Jerry produces videos that are of interest to anyone who wants to do anything saddle related. Scott doesn’t have many videos out but, dies show his progression. That dude has to be part spider too. Effortless is an understatement in describing his climbs. Red Beard’s heart rate has to stay the same in the video I watched of him. He just eased up the tree talking.

Give them a look see.

 

[Red Beard]

Yes. If you adjust the bridge tether to loose, you hang by the leg band only. Which naturally will sink your butt lower. Resulting in you wanting to keep the foot tether loaded for stability. However, If you load the bridge ‘Biner with a small fraction of weight in your adjustment, you will put your knee against the tree instead. Creating several more inches to work with between you and the tree. Your butt will be higher at rest too. Allowing you to take a bigger step with your leg tether. Also, adjust both Prussics on your main tether to allow you to get that tether as high above your head as possible when moving it as you climb. To low and it doesn’t give you enough slack and keeps you pulled tight to the tree.

If you’ve watched Jerry transition on his you tube channel, you’ll see a guy just like everyone else. He built the system, walks out to a tree, tethers in and climbs. While looking modestly graceful. However, watching his latest videos, he makes it look very easy. You too will progress just like that if you practice. Red Beard made it look ridiculously easy in the video I watched of him. I suspect he didn’t video his first attempt. lol.

Neither exactly mimics Scott Adkins. For example, Jerry doesn’t tie into the foot tether. He steps up, hooks the tree with his leg band leg, moves his main tether up as far as he can, tightens his safe rock, then removes his foot from the foot tether and places both knees against the tree allowing his saddle to float him like he was one sticking. He then Adjusts the foot tether up, places his left foot back in it, locks his foot to the tree preventing a kick out, and stands up to repeat the process.

initially, I’d guess it was taking his 10-12 minutes to get up to height and setup. I’m betting he’s doing it in 5 or 6 minutes now with very little effort. It’s just practice.

I guess why I told you all this is because everyone will do things their way with the 2 tether system. The main thing is you have proper tethers dedicated to the system. You use a backup bridge prussic on your leg band tether. And you practice enough to do it the way you are comfortable with. There is nothing wrong with not tying into the foot tether. And, if you don’t like the stability of your toes, use your knees to stay off the tree while moving the foot tether.

You got two guys on this thread that make it look like butter. I’m getting pretty decent at it myself. And, I promise if I can do it, So can you.

Bro... I'm so glad you have time to sit and write so well what I've been trying to put into words regarding the way to achieve a more vertical position with your thigh loop and saddle. That was PERFECTLY explained! Thank you!

 

[2Sloe]

Why not 2TC? I’m new to saddle hunting. When I saw someone in a saddle for the first time, the decision to saddle hunt was easy, it was what I had been looking for after dragging that 19 lb Viper around mile after mile on public where I hunt. Picking a saddle was easy, there are many great choices. However picking a way up the tree was an evolution marked by much research and progression. I really didn’t want to trade my Viper for a stack of sticks. I saw DRT/SRT and said that’s awesome, no sticks to carry, I’ll do that. Then I got to watching a little more. These dudes aren’t throwing a bag in the dark, they are mainly using presets, which is less flexible than hunting out of my Summit Viper. I’m like, man I sure want to be able to pick a tree in the dark and climb it. So, who’s throwing a bag in the dark up in trees with no low limbs? Nobody, well there goes DRT/SRT.

Then I saw an awesome demo by Bow Hunter magazine climbing with sticks and a movable aider and I said OK, well maybe a stack of sticks wouldn’t be too bad. Then I saw someone climbing with a Lone Wolf hand climber top and I said wow! That looks awesome, I’ll do that. Then I started hearing about possible limitations. Sometimes it worked, sometime it didn’t, works on some trees, doesn’t work well on others, need to modify the top, and it suffers from the same type of limitations as my Viper. Hmmmm....Oh wow, look at One Stick! Dang that looks great! Don’t really see any limitations, no stack of sticks to haul, no bags to throw, no significant tree limitations, light, mobile, check, check check. That’s the one!.....Then I saw Scott Akins climb a tree with the 2TC and I was like. WOW! It doesn’t get any better than that. Made perfect sense and it was evolutionary if for nothing else, because of it’s simplicity. It’s climbing perfected, if you can perfect the method yourself.

But frankly, at that point, I was starting to suffer from method fatigue. I had to pick something, so I picked one stick because it delivered the best continuum of advantages with the least risk (success wise). It was a method that I knew 100% that I would be able to do. I also have a LWHC top that I’m going to learn as well. But, for the least learning curve, with the most advantages, I think one stick is a good first choice if you really want light and mobile. But once I have those down, I’m coming back to 2TC because I do recognize the potential in that method. Besides, I need something to do after this next season and by then, you guys will have all the kinks worked out! Ha! Ha! Ha! Appreciate all you guys do to further the sport.....

 

[Red Beard]

Why not 2TC? I’m new to saddle hunting. When I saw someone in a saddle for the first time, the decision to saddle hunt was easy, it was what I had been looking for after dragging that 19 lb Viper around mile after mile on public where I hunt. Picking a saddle was easy, there are many great choices. However picking a way up the tree was an evolution marked by much research and progression. I really didn’t want to trade my Viper for a stack of sticks. I saw DRT/SRT and said that’s awesome, no sticks to carry, I’ll do that. Then I got to watching a little more. These dudes aren’t throwing a bag in the dark, they are mainly using presets, which is less flexible than hunting out of my Summit Viper. I’m like, man I sure want to be able to pick a tree in the dark and climb it. So, who’s throwing a bag in the dark up in trees with no low limbs? Nobody, well there goes DRT/SRT.

Then I saw an awesome demo by Bow Hunter magazine climbing with sticks and a movable aider and I said OK, well maybe a stack of sticks wouldn’t be too bad. Then I saw someone climbing with a Lone Wolf hand climber top and I said wow! That looks awesome, I’ll do that. Then I started hearing about possible limitations. Sometimes it worked, sometime it didn’t, works on some trees, doesn’t work well on others, need to modify the top, and it suffers from the same type of limitations as my Viper. Hmmmm....Oh wow, look at One Stick! Dang that looks great! Don’t really see any limitations, no stack of sticks to haul, no bags to throw, no significant tree limitations, light, mobile, check, check check. That’s the one!.....Then I saw Scott Akins climb a tree with the 2TC and I was like. WOW! It doesn’t get any better than that. Made perfect sense and it was evolutionary if for nothing else, because of it’s simplicity. It’s climbing perfected, if you can perfect the method yourself.

But frankly, at that point, I was starting to suffer from method fatigue. I had to pick something, so I picked one stick because it delivered the best continuum of advantages with the least risk (success wise). It was a method that I knew 100% that I would be able to do. I also have a LWHC top that I’m going to learn as well. But, for the least learning curve, with the most advantages, I think one stick is a good first choice if you really want light and mobile. But once I have those down, I’m coming back to 2TC because I do recognize the potential in that method. Besides, I need something to do after this next season and by then, you guys will have all the kinks worked out! Ha! Ha! Ha! Appreciate all you guys do to further the sport.....

Because you wrote LWHC and 2TC in the same paragraph, my mind made an interesting association that I'd never thought of before... 2TC is very similar to climbing with a LWHC. You basically slinky up the tree with both methods. Guess the major difference between them is that one has a stable base for your feet at the cost of a few pounds.

 

[five]

Do you have a link to the video?

Here is the timed video from Scott:

 

[TNSTAAFL]

2TC is very similar to climbing with a LWHC. You basically slinky up the tree with both methods. Guess the major difference between them is that one has a stable base for your feet at the cost of a few pounds.

Interesting comparison. I can see these similarities and have experience with the LWHC, so that gives me more confidence in contemplating trying 2TC.
On the weight comparison I suspect there is not much difference. A hand climber top is 4.5 lbs. Still haven't heard a total weight for 2TC systems, but I'm assuming it is 3-4 lbs including rappel gear. Would love to hear some real world #s from those that do this. If it's closer to 2 lbs that might be a tipping point.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

If you use amsteel, both tethers will weigh much less then 2 pounds. Probably half at the most. You could always watch Jerry’s video on how to build tethers from amsteel, that have loops. Making them much easier to move up and down the tree.


I’m currently using a stock tethrd tether and, bought a predator tree tether off EWO for my foot tether. I bought a couple continuous loops and used the ‘Biners I had for my 5 step aiders I used for my steps. I don’t know the weight. But, I’m guessing it’s real close, if not under 2 pounds.


Hope that helps.

 

[TNSTAAFL]

If you use amsteel, both tethers will weigh much less then 2 pounds. Probably half at the most. You could always watch Jerry’s video on how to build tethers from amsteel, that have loops. Making them much easier to move up and down the tree.


I’m currently using a stock tethrd tether and, bought a predator tree tether off EWO for my foot tether. I bought a couple continuous loops and used the ‘Biners I had for my 5 step aiders I used for my steps. I don’t know the weight. But, I’m guessing it’s real close, if not under 2 pounds.


Hope that helps.

Thanks for sharing #'s. Do you rappel down, or 2TC down? Assuming most/all rappel, we need to add the weight of 35'ish rappel rope, Safeguard (or alternative), and any necessary biners and cordage. Need a total climbing system weight, up and down, for apples to apples comparison to non rappel climbing systems.

I think I've pieced it all together from what I've read here or there on these various component weights, but since I don't own any I can't be sure. It'd be nice if someone bagged up everything they use to climb up and down, weighed it, and posted the results.

 

[TreeCreep]

I just started fooling with this a month or two ago. Here is what I’ve found.

First, climbing rope versus amsteel blue made moving the tethers much easier. Amsteel really grabs the tree and hangs up on bark and such.

Second, a leg band is a great add on. I tried it with out and had a hard time staying away from the tree without it. Making moving my foot tether harder.

The third things is, you have to have the main tether with your leg band and shortened bridge adjusted correctly. Meaning enough pressure on the leg band to give stability. Then adjust you bridge tether that it just starts pulling tight as you load the leg band with your weight.


Fourth, I think the first impulse is to adjust the leg band and bridge Prussics that you can’t get enough distance from the tree to easily unload and move the foot tether.

Fifth, for me to easily move the foot tether, I had to have it connected to my foot versus removing it every time. The time savings was incredible.

And finally, climb with knee pads on! It makes all the difference in the world.

Then, you just got to practice. Then practice more.


FWIW, anyone who says they think the two tether system isn’t fast, is totally uninformed and hasn’t tried it. I am not very quick at it. However, Scott Adkins has a video where he tethers in, climbs 20 feet, climbs down and unhooks in 3:41. Nothing out there is that fast.

So, tie that foot tether to your foot. Use climbing rope if amsteel isn’t your thing
Adjust everything properly before leaving the ground, use a leg band, and practice. It’s easier then any method. And, Trust your saddle and load it up while climbing if you get fatigued.

After reading this - Im going to have to try again. I tried a few moves to see how this felt w Amsteel set up like above- on a cool day and couldnt see how i wouldnt be sweaty and/ or frustrated by the time i got to height.
There will be more hunters using this after a good "off the shelf" version is offered by EWO or one of the aider guys.
Not sure I want to sacrifice extra 40' Oplux that i could sell for $70+
Love that this is a lightweight option for@$50; with all the $200 sticks lately.

And more importanly.
Lets go...Mountaineers!

 

[Red Beard]

Assuming most/all rappel, we need to add the weight of 35'ish rappel rope, Safeguard (or alternative), and any necessary biners and cordage. Need a total climbing system weight, up and down, for apples to apples comparison to non rappel climbing systems.

I think I've pieced it all together from what I've read here or there on these various component weights, but since I don't own any I can't be sure. It'd be nice if someone bagged up everything they use to climb up and down, weighed it, and posted the results.

Here's as apples to apples as I could get. Please note that the Yates isn't a necessary 2TC component. It's just there to make me feel better about climbing trees and having 7 kids!

 

[JSEXTON23]

And there you have it folks.

 

[NorthFourty]

I tried it with a well padded leg band and found it painful. Quickly learned a leg band isn't needed. Tether to the tree from your saddle and a second tether to a padded foot loop (used shoulder strap from a old pack with 2" webbing). Slide the foot tether up and stand up. Slide the saddle tether up and sit down. Slide the foot tether up and stand up. Slide the saddle tether up and sit down. Repeat. You may or may not need to hook the opposite leg around the tree. If limbs are expected add a carabiner to each tether and use your lineman's belt over limbs while you move the others above the limb (it's less trouble than explaining it). Your always tethered to the tree and nothing to slip off of. I climb with 35' of line in my right pouch feeding through my choice of repel device attached to the bridge. When it's time to come down it's fast and pretty cool. Can use the same 35' to SRT with a CT RollNLock and a trick posted by Compound Cowboy, youtube, "Set & Retrieve Your Climbing Line." I use Wesspur's DynaGlide Throw Line, 1.8mm 1,000# breaking strength to set and retrieve the main line for SRT and 2TC.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Thanks for sharing #'s. Do you rappel down, or 2TC down? Assuming most/all rappel, we need to add the weight of 35'ish rappel rope, Safeguard (or alternative), and any necessary biners and cordage. Need a total climbing system weight, up and down, for apples to apples comparison to non rappel climbing systems.

I think I've pieced it all together from what I've read here or there on these various component weights, but since I don't own any I can't be sure. It'd be nice if someone bagged up everything they use to climb up and down, weighed it, and posted the results.

I don’t rappel down yet. And, I add yet as it’s likely going to change. It just makes sense. But, it’s also important to note that the two tethers easily fit in a sys hauler. Plus back band. Plus gear tether. I like the compact profile of just the tethers. But, I like rappelling too. .

 

[bj139]

Here is the timed video from Scott:

That is something how Scott uses no tether to his saddle. Does he even have a saddle?

 

[Red Beard]

That is something how Scott uses no tether to his saddle. Does he even have a saddle?

This video is one of his earlier versions. I thought "Whoa bro... that looks sketchy." In later iterations he added a connection to his bridge and then I decided to try it.

 

[goody94]

Here is an experiment that I did today. 2 foot loops and no leg loop. The bottom foot loop is fixed to my foot with an elastic band and the top loop my foot can come in and out of. I tried it with a leg loop the way most people are doing it and didn’t find it any easier than this (but I may be doing something incorrectly). Let me know what feedback you have on this set up for 2tc. I’m not sure it’s actually much faster but it didn’t seem that terribly difficult overall and I was practicing on a fairly large tree in the video. Probably was moving about 3 feet per move if I had to guess.

Again this is like my 3rd time ever doing this so I’m sure there are many things to improve. Just interested to hear others thoughts. Only went a couple moves up to keep the video on the shorter side.