John Eberhart's Kestrel modifactions

[sureshotscott]

I typically throw them as far as I can into the woods. That way the deer know I'm coming. I like to play fair.

Is this sorcery performed with or without the crocs?

 

[Boudreaux]

I have seen the videos and have literally spent more time in the kestrel than any other saddle. I stated somewhere most of my hunts im in the saddle up to 8+ hrs with 6hrs the usual minimum. I have just over 70 hunts this year. I have adjusted every which way. Im not saying this is a bad saddle by any means.

From a R&D stand point for us this is something that is interesting. Leg straps should cause no "comfort issue", there should be no difference in comfort if they left completely loose vs not there (not recommended). So it would have to be something else, you mentioned something about sticking and bridge loops, how high is your tree strap?

Thanks,
Boswell

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Is this sorcery performed with or without the crocs?

I have seen the videos and have literally spent more time in the kestrel than any other saddle. I stated somewhere most of my hunts im in the saddle up to 8+ hrs with 6hrs the usual minimum. I have just over 70 hunts this year. I have adjusted every which way. Im not saying this is a bad saddle by any means.

Not trying to push your buttons or anything, I'm just curious-- I helped in the design of the kestrel, so I've spent a few hours in it and a number of other prototypes on the way to the kestrel. Do you sit, stand, or lean when you are in the saddle? Is your treestrap set above your head or below your head? What is the length of your bridge in inches? I can't wrap my brain around the concept that cutting the leg straps off of the kestrel would increase comfort.
That said, my bridge is 42 inches long and my treestrap is set as high above my head as I can reach. I'm a leaner or sitter. Mostly a leaner. I use kneepads, too, and my knees have contact with the tree 95 percent of the time. My platform is five ameristeps on a rachet.

 

[ImThere]

MCDM,
I with you, I couldn’t get comfortable in the Kestrel I sat for 3 hours and had enough of this Chinese torture device. It seems really hard for people to grasp that the Kestrel can be uncomfortable for some people. I hope you can get it to work. I’m waiting to try a size 2 I truly think that is the problem for ME. Yes the Kestrel is well made. Yes new tribe makes a great saddle. Yes they have great customer service and great guys out helping with there product. Yes they support us tree saddlers. But if the Kestrel don’t work for YOU it just may not Work. Saddles in my experience are a very personalized thing not one size fits all. I hope you find what you looking for MCDM
Ricky


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[20ftup]

I noticed the same discomfort as mcdm. I didn’t try to many different combinations of adjustment. Mcdm did you try not hooking up the leg straps at all. Would give you the same effect as removing them. Just to narrow down the culprits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DaveT1963]

I cannot speak for John..... But everything I have ever heard from him would lead me to believe he does not modify his saddle because of comfort issues. He certainly don't modify them for safety reasons. He modifies them to be more effective hunting tools. And I totally agree with what he does after having tried it myself. And I have tried almost every saddle ever made to include the original aerial hunter and the new Kestrel… and to date the most effective hunting saddle I've ever sat in has been my modified version of the G2 sit drag.

 

[MCDM]

From a R&D stand point for us this is something that is interesting. Leg straps should cause no "comfort issue", there should be no difference in comfort if they left completely loose vs not there (not recommended). So it would have to be something else, you mentioned something about sticking and bridge loops, how high is your tree strap?

Thanks,
Boswell

Not trying to push your buttons or anything, I'm just curious-- I helped in the design of the kestrel, so I've spent a few hours in it and a number of other prototypes on the way to the kestrel. Do you sit, stand, or lean when you are in the saddle? Is your treestrap set above your head or below your head? What is the length of your bridge in inches? I can't wrap my brain around the concept that cutting the leg straps off of the kestrel would increase comfort.
That said, my bridge is 42 inches long and my treestrap is set as high above my head as I can reach. I'm a leaner or sitter. Mostly a leaner. I use kneepads, too, and my knees have contact with the tree 95 percent of the time. My platform is five ameristeps on a rachet.

My tree strap normally has been right at eye level. My bridge is adjustable so i have that option to change on the fly. @Boudreaux maybe your right on something as i am in the tree now. Let me ask you is the seat bigger on a size 2?

 

[MCDM]

I cannot speak for John..... But everything I have ever heard from him would lead me to believe he does not modify his saddle because of comfort issues. He certainly don't modify them for safety reasons. He modifies them to be more effective hunting tools. And I totally agree with what he does after having tried it myself. And I have tried almost every saddle ever made to include the original aerial hunter and the new Kestrel… and to date the most effective hunting saddle I've ever sat in has been my modified version of the G2 sit drag.

I agree dave!! My sole purpose for not modifying the kestrel was to work out the kinks i am experiencing. If i chose to modify it would eliminate the straps which have been what irks me the most. I have a sit drag and i will second your comments on it as it has been the most comfortable and effective for me in certain areas. I am only hoping to continue working with the kestrel as some of my experiences apparently others are having as well. If i can figure it all out and contribute im hoping to help the other guys. But i agree with everything you stated!

 

[BassBoysLLP]

MCDM,
I with you, I couldn’t get comfortable in the Kestrel I sat for 3 hours and had enough of this Chinese torture device. It seems really hard for people to grasp that the Kestrel can be uncomfortable for some people. I hope you can get it to work. I’m waiting to try a size 2 I truly think that is the problem for ME. Yes the Kestrel is well made. Yes new tribe makes a great saddle. Yes they have great customer service and great guys out helping with there product. Yes they support us tree saddlers. But if the Kestrel don’t work for YOU it just may not Work. Saddles in my experience are a very personalized thing not one size fits all. I hope you find what you looking for MCDM
Ricky


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't blame you for going back to the sit drag if it worked good for you in the past. You need to be moderately comfortable. If you aren't comfortable, your most likely moving.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[redsquirrel]

I think my issue is with the seat design as I have thought about it for awhile. The seat has some cupping like effect kinda what you see in alot of the hammock designs. The sitdrag did not have this issue and i think its the design thats not working for me. The sitdrag was more flat in seat nature. Im not sure if all that makes sense. Don’t get me wrong i still commend and will support newtribe and any and all designs in the future. They have opened a door for all of us and i still think they make a superior product. I just have to play with everything and have an addiction to gear.

I still think you'd be better with a size 2. I know what the new tribe recommendations are and I don't agree with them. I wouldn't have believed I needed a size 2. I hunted the first 2 months of the season in my size 1 and I was just ok. I could get comfortable with a low tether but when I tried to move it up it was uncomfortable. After I picked up the size 2 I have had zero comfort issues no matter how I set up.

I'm 5'7", 180# with a 36" waist. Anytime I see someone who is in any way larger than me have comfort issues I think they need the size 2.

 

[BassBoysLLP]

I really like how my Kestrel fits and it is so comfortable. I wouldn't change a thing. I known everyone wants to go lite but how much weight would you loose off the Kestrel by doing the changes John made. Just curious.

12-14 oz if he cuts the main belt and leg straps, 8-9 oz with just leg straps. Shave a couple oz if he switches to a poly main belt buckle.

Cutting the straps and going stand alone rock harness for fall arrest is close as lightest climbing harnesses are around 8 oz. The lightest ones arent very comfortable to hang from and unlike a saddle the minimalist ones can lead to orthostatic shock. With more comfort RC harnesses comes weight. For example, my go to RC harness with the sit drag (and also when I rock climb) was the Metolius Safe Tech at 20 ounces. If I converted the Kestrel into a sit drag and went back my dedicated rock harness I would be adding weight.

That's just me though. Everyone is different.



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Ontariofarmer]

I am sure a sit drag is not as safe as a kestrel unless you have a rock climbing harness and modifications need to be done well. Some can do it well and all the power to em

No chance of orthostatic shock with a kestrel.
Advantage of a sit drag more comfortable for some but not me and lighter if you use no climbing harness

Oh and cheaper


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[John Eberhart]

To me it looks like you converted a kestrel into a super sit drag or sit drag deluxe. Am I correct or is there a different mod going on here? Also what was the purpose of doing the mod, reducing weight, comfort, a combination? I'm curious as I like to tinker with things, and I also like getting different perspectives and ideas.

Mike

I've never seen or used a sit drag so can't answer that question.

Weight, potential noise, size, how cumbersome and ease of attaching and use are what I take into consideration when making modifications. I like to be able to carry my harness in my pack while taking up nearly zero space, slip into it at the base of my tree within 10 seconds, and attach it to the tree once on my steps within 10 seconds. I also don't like to mess with all the useless straps and buckles in the dark when putting it on.

 

[John Eberhart]

Definitely more risk here, the whole system. Not for me but I'm sure this appeals to others. Everyone needs to do their own risk assessment.

Absolutely correct

 

[John Eberhart]

I only ordered my kestrel last week, and have no intentions of messing with it in the near future. Just like picking people's brains on stuff

I totally agree that no new user should ever mess with any harness until they're very comfortable with the entire program and know what they can live without. I've hunted thousands of times from a harness and have been exclusively using a harness since 1981 and am very comfortable with my modifications.

I may die someday from falling out of a tree, but it won't be from falling through my harness due to a lack of leg straps as my armpits would catch on the seat.

 

[John Eberhart]

About as much as the keys in my pocket...

The 2 leg buckles on a Kestrel weigh more than a set of keys but the main point is they can potentially make noise as they fit together and are made of metal. I will not take that chance. I could see cutting off the buckles and having the 2 ends sewn together at whatever length is needed to eliminate the possibility of noise and eliminate a little weight.

 

[John Eberhart]

How's it compare the to the John E/modified anderson sling? Thanks for sharing.

The Kestrel according to my son Joe who has both is a bit more comfortable. The lead and bridge I put on my and Joe's Kestrels are exactly the same as on my sling.

 

[MCDM]

I still think you'd be better with a size 2. I know what the new tribe recommendations are and I don't agree with them. I wouldn't have believed I needed a size 2. I hunted the first 2 months of the season in my size 1 and I was just ok. I could get comfortable with a low tether but when I tried to move it up it was uncomfortable. After I picked up the size 2 I have had zero comfort issues no matter how I set up.

I'm 5'7", 180# with a 36" waist. Anytime I see someone who is in any way larger than me have comfort issues I think they need the size 2.

Well that might explain somethings because im 5’10” 210# with a 35” waist. I went with the size one after ordering a two because everyone said a size one was big. Maybe i went wrong with listening to everyone lol and should have just trusted my gut. Lol ill have to maybe spring on another kestrel... my wife is gonna kill me!!!

 

[MCDM]

I totally agree that no new user should ever mess with any harness until they're very comfortable with the entire program and know what they can live without. I've hunted thousands of times from a harness and have been exclusively using a harness since 1981 and am very comfortable with my modifications.

I may die someday from falling out of a tree, but it won't be from falling through my harness due to a lack of leg straps as my armpits would catch on the seat.

This quote pretty much sums it up!! Now I don’t have the year’s John has but I have alot of time spent in saddles and have a system down in how I setup at the base of the tree to the top. I have to ponder a few things but thanks to all for the input and perspectives!!

 

[Ontariofarmer]

Well that might explain somethings because im 5’10” 210# with a 35” waist. I went with the size one after ordering a two because everyone said a size one was big. Maybe i went wrong with listening to everyone lol and should have just trusted my gut. Lol ill have to maybe spring on another kestrel... my wife is gonna kill me!!!

I will probably order a size 2 and we can die together. Our wives must think the same I am about your size my size 1 is good but a size 2 may be better


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk