Bullman Pioneer steps

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Off the top of my head:
Kong-Italy
Petzl-France
CMI-USA
DMM-UK
Eidlweiss-Austria
Wild Country-UK
There are many more.

CMI is not made in the USA, they outsource overseas

 

[Hall17]

That’s why I went with Petzl stuff. I didn’t know who made the ones like from Tethrd. I know Petzl makes solid stuff

 

[raisins]

That’s why I went with Petzl stuff. I didn’t know who made the ones like from Tethrd. I know Petzl makes solid stuff

I'm a big fan of the red indicator under their screw locks. You can do a quick visual of all carabiners. The red is like a gun safety indicator. I wish others would pay the patent fee to Petzl to do it themselves.

 

[tailgunner]

I am not anti China, I am anti death!!!!
I wrote in another thread about the One Stick;
"China has the worst quality control in the world.
China also has a reputation for subsisting materials when they run out of the correct material. There plant managers are under intense pressure to meet production. If you don't meet production and you are lucky you go to a reeducation camp, if not you go to a slave labor camp.
Toxic Chinese Drywall Creates A Housing Disaster : NPR
Toxic Treats from China Killing US Dogs, Say Pet Owners - ABC News (go.com)
If you internet search, you will find China manufactured tree stands and sticks that have been recalled do to quality/safety issues. Too many to list.
So the issue could be design, but my guess it is poor quality control.
You can not manufacture a product that needs precise temperature and humidity for the glue to dry properly in a country that has no quality control and expect a quality product."
I am a little tired of my fellow hunters getting killed or put in a wheel chair to save a few $.
I know a guy who is in a wheel chair from a tree stand accident, and it could have been avoided.

not to mention covid too.every country has birds chickens pigs and bats.but they dont get the flu from them

 

[tailgunner]

Don't know what I was thinking.
China metal never breaks or bends.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2015/global-manufacturing-company-recalls-api-outdoors-tree-stands

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2016/Global-Manufacturing-Company-Recalls-API-Outdoors-Tree-Stands/

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2006/Hunting-Tree-Stands-Recalled-for-Collapse-Hazard/

https://www.cpsc.gov/recalls/2006/full-body-safety-harnesses-recalled-for-fall-hazard/

https://www.cpsc.gov/recalls/2011/hunter-safety-system-recalls-carabiners-due-to-fall-hazard/

https://www.cpsc.gov/recalls/2013/rivers-edge-recalls-hunters-tree-stands-due-to-fall-hazard/

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2015/Hunters-Tree-Stands-Recalled-by-Primal-Vantage/

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2021/A...ecalls-Climbing-Treestands-Due-to-Fall-Hazard

cant argue with this info.but i felt like you didnt mention any american recals as if they dont exist

 

[GeoFish]

cant argue with this info.but i felt like you didnt mention any american recals as if they dont exist

I am not saying American products are perfect and that they never had a recall. But the percentages are much lower.
What I am saying is that China has the reputation for the worst quality in the world.
So when you climb a tree, you are taking a chance. Why not use the best equipment you can to minimize the risk. The fact that you saved a few $ wont matter if you are in a wheel chair the rest of your life. If you cannot afford top quality climbing gear, then don't climb. Hunt off the ground, save your money until you can afford good gear.

Kong Carabiners have never been recalled.
Lone Wolf Climbing sticks have never been recalled.

Muddy sticks have been;
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2012/m...sticks-due-to-risk-of-serious-injury-or-death
XOP sticks have been;

Xtreme Outdoor Products Recalls Climbing Sticks Due to Fall Hazard and Risk of Serious Injury

Consumers should immediately stop using the recalled climbing sticks and return them to Xtreme Outdoor Products (XOP) for a full refund or refund in the form of a store credit.

www.cpsc.gov

Ameristeps have been;

Primal Vantage Recalls Plastic Tree Steps Due to Fall Hazard

www.cpsc.gov

Which ones do you want to use?

 

[CZMark]

I am not saying American products are perfect and that they never had a recall. But the percentages are much lower.
What I am saying is that China has the reputation for the worst quality in the world.
So when you climb a tree, you are taking a chance. Why not use the best equipment you can to minimize the risk. The fact that you saved a few $ wont matter if you are in a wheel chair the rest of your life. If you cannot afford top quality climbing gear, then don't climb. Hunt off the ground, save your money until you can afford good gear.

Kong Carabiners have never been recalled.
Lone Wolf Climbing sticks have never been recalled.

Muddy sticks have been;
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2012/m...sticks-due-to-risk-of-serious-injury-or-death
XOP sticks have been;

Xtreme Outdoor Products Recalls Climbing Sticks Due to Fall Hazard and Risk of Serious Injury

Consumers should immediately stop using the recalled climbing sticks and return them to Xtreme Outdoor Products (XOP) for a full refund or refund in the form of a store credit.

www.cpsc.gov

Ameristeps have been;

Primal Vantage Recalls Plastic Tree Steps Due to Fall Hazard

www.cpsc.gov

Which ones do you want to use?

No Tethrd products have ever been recalled either.

 

[raisins]

I am not saying American products are perfect and that they never had a recall. But the percentages are much lower.
What I am saying is that China has the reputation for the worst quality in the world.
So when you climb a tree, you are taking a chance. Why not use the best equipment you can to minimize the risk. The fact that you saved a few $ wont matter if you are in a wheel chair the rest of your life. If you cannot afford top quality climbing gear, then don't climb. Hunt off the ground, save your money until you can afford good gear.

Kong Carabiners have never been recalled.
Lone Wolf Climbing sticks have never been recalled.

Muddy sticks have been;
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2012/m...sticks-due-to-risk-of-serious-injury-or-death
XOP sticks have been;

Xtreme Outdoor Products Recalls Climbing Sticks Due to Fall Hazard and Risk of Serious Injury

Consumers should immediately stop using the recalled climbing sticks and return them to Xtreme Outdoor Products (XOP) for a full refund or refund in the form of a store credit.

www.cpsc.gov

Ameristeps have been;

Primal Vantage Recalls Plastic Tree Steps Due to Fall Hazard

www.cpsc.gov

Which ones do you want to use?

Also, there is a difference between a very large company that has enough money to build their production facility in China and have people from their company living there or doing continual quality checks and hiring/firing.

The worst is doing what small companies do which is to send some product specs to some company in China that makes stuff for everyone and then expecting them to send you back what you asked for without someone being there guiding them and also making employment and management decisions.

For instance, Helly Hansen moved their facilities to China. Those jackets etc are probably not as good as when they were made in Norway, but they are still really good because it is a company worth a few billion (probably). Compare that with some easy to recall examples from saddle hunting where you're basically going off the honors system, and what are you going to do? Sue them in Chinese court?

 

[raisins]

No Tethrd products have ever been recalled either.

LOL....good point. I actually don't mind that Toyota has made a few recalls on my Tacomas. It means they are on the ball.

 

[kyler1945]

I am not saying American products are perfect and that they never had a recall. But the percentages are much lower.
What I am saying is that China has the reputation for the worst quality in the world.
So when you climb a tree, you are taking a chance. Why not use the best equipment you can to minimize the risk. The fact that you saved a few $ wont matter if you are in a wheel chair the rest of your life. If you cannot afford top quality climbing gear, then don't climb. Hunt off the ground, save your money until you can afford good gear.

Kong Carabiners have never been recalled.
Lone Wolf Climbing sticks have never been recalled.

Muddy sticks have been;
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2012/m...sticks-due-to-risk-of-serious-injury-or-death
XOP sticks have been;

Xtreme Outdoor Products Recalls Climbing Sticks Due to Fall Hazard and Risk of Serious Injury

Consumers should immediately stop using the recalled climbing sticks and return them to Xtreme Outdoor Products (XOP) for a full refund or refund in the form of a store credit.

www.cpsc.gov

Ameristeps have been;

Primal Vantage Recalls Plastic Tree Steps Due to Fall Hazard

www.cpsc.gov

Which ones do you want to use?

do you have the data to back up your claim that China, on the whole, is worse at quality control, than any other country? It’s a pretty vague claim. I’m especially interested in any related to climbing gear, but even broader studies would be helpful.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I am not saying American products are perfect and that they never had a recall. But the percentages are much lower.
What I am saying is that China has the reputation for the worst quality in the world.
So when you climb a tree, you are taking a chance. Why not use the best equipment you can to minimize the risk. The fact that you saved a few $ wont matter if you are in a wheel chair the rest of your life. If you cannot afford top quality climbing gear, then don't climb. Hunt off the ground, save your money until you can afford good gear.

Kong Carabiners have never been recalled.
Lone Wolf Climbing sticks have never been recalled.

https://609dacc9-7e3a-41d7-9287-070fe63be12b.filesusr.com/ugd/384961_f11a2f33b316434e9cabf2044f1d294b.pdf
Hate to tell you this but Kong has had multiple products recalled in years past, most recently is the Kong Tango…..

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I am not saying American products are perfect and that they never had a recall. But the percentages are much lower.
What I am saying is that China has the reputation for the worst quality in the world.
So when you climb a tree, you are taking a chance. Why not use the best equipment you can to minimize the risk. The fact that you saved a few $ wont matter if you are in a wheel chair the rest of your life. If you cannot afford top quality climbing gear, then don't climb. Hunt off the ground, save your money until you can afford good gear.

Kong Carabiners have never been recalled.
Lone Wolf Climbing sticks have never been recalled.

Muddy sticks have been;
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2012/m...sticks-due-to-risk-of-serious-injury-or-death
XOP sticks have been;

Xtreme Outdoor Products Recalls Climbing Sticks Due to Fall Hazard and Risk of Serious Injury

Consumers should immediately stop using the recalled climbing sticks and return them to Xtreme Outdoor Products (XOP) for a full refund or refund in the form of a store credit.

www.cpsc.gov

Ameristeps have been;

Primal Vantage Recalls Plastic Tree Steps Due to Fall Hazard

www.cpsc.gov

Which ones do you want to use?

https://609dacc9-7e3a-41d7-9287-070fe63be12b.filesusr.com/ugd/384961_f11a2f33b316434e9cabf2044f1d294b.pdf

Hate to tell you this but kong has had multiple products recalled over the past few years most recently the Kong Tango 2/2021

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Also, there is a difference between a very large company that has enough money to build their production facility in China and have people from their company living there or doing continual quality checks and hiring/firing.

The worst is doing what small companies do which is to send some product specs to some company in China that makes stuff for everyone and then expecting them to send you back what you asked for without someone being their guiding them and also making employment and management decisions.

For instance, Helly Hansen moved their facilities to China. Those jackets etc are probably not as good as when they were made in Norway, but they are still really good because it is a company worth a few billion (probably). Compare that with some easy to recall examples from saddle hunting where you're basically going off the honors system, and what are you going to do? Sue them in Chinese court?

Exactly that is the difference between true globalization and just “outsourcing”… Great response!

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

do you have the data to back up your claim that China, on the whole, is worse at quality control, than any other country? It’s a pretty vague claim. I’m especially interested in any related to climbing gear, but even broader studies would be helpful.

I’d also like to see it broke down in percentages. How many products were made that year compared to the amount of recalls. If only 15% of American made climbing stuff still exists and it has only 10,000 recalls all year but China makes 65% of the climbing stuff and they had 40,000 recalls, statistically they were still better. Although what he is saying is true our company provides proprietary data for Chinese metal products used for rigging. The data supports our company not purchasing metal products for rigging or life support from China

 

[GeoFish]

do you have the data to back up your claim that China, on the whole, is worse at quality control, than any other country? It’s a pretty vague claim. I’m especially interested in any related to climbing gear, but even broader studies would be helpful.

I think we are beating a dead horse. If you want to buy China products go ahead. I cannot think of a product that I purchased that was made in China that turned out to be a good product. My statements are based on my experiences. I have never had a problem with a American made tree stand or climbing stick and I started tree stand hunting in 1983. I have purchased some tree stand that were made in China that never left my backyard, because they were returned to the store because they we of such low quality and they had defects.

I said Kong Carabiners did not have a recall to my knowledge, not all Kong products. I checked that out before I purchased the carabiners.

I said China has the reputation for the worst quality in the world.
A survey by Statista – a statistics and market research firm based in Hamburg, Germany, surveyed more than 43,000 people in 52 nations on who was the most respected nations, in terms of the production of goods—or, where the phrase “Made In (fill in the blank)” has the most positive image. And China came in dead last.

Made In Where? The Countries With The Best Reputations For Producing Quality

A new survey by Statista shows how people in different nations view products and goods made in other countries. Who has the highest reputation for quality and design? Who has the most disappointing reputation?

www.forbes.com

Just ask 10 friends how they view products made in China as to quality!

 

[kyler1945]

I think we are beating a dead horse. If you want to buy China products go ahead. I cannot think of a product that I purchased that was made in China that turned out to be a good product. My statements are based on my experiences. I have never had a problem with a American made tree stand or climbing stick and I started tree stand hunting in 1983. I have purchased some tree stand that were made in China that never left my backyard, because they were returned to the store because they we of such low quality and they had defects.

I said Kong Carabiners did not have a recall to my knowledge, not all Kong products. I checked that out before I purchased the carabiners.

I said China has the reputation for the worst quality in the world.
A survey by Statista – a statistics and market research firm based in Hamburg, Germany, surveyed more than 43,000 people in 52 nations on who was the most respected nations, in terms of the production of goods—or, where the phrase “Made In (fill in the blank)” has the most positive image. And China came in dead last.

Made In Where? The Countries With The Best Reputations For Producing Quality

A new survey by Statista shows how people in different nations view products and goods made in other countries. Who has the highest reputation for quality and design? Who has the most disappointing reputation?

www.forbes.com

Just ask 10 friends how they view products made in China as to quality!

I was more thinking of studies on actual quality control, failure rates, etc of serious stuff. Not the opinions of consumer goods of 40,000 laypeople, subject to their noise and biases.

I have no doubt that poor quality goods from China permeate our world because supply follows demand. People addicted to cheap stuff, will of course generate a demand Consumer reports have very little to do with the topic at hand though.

I would argue the dead horse is worth beating, when we’re talking about people’s limbs and lives. If you’ve got good data to support your hypothesis that China sucks at making climbing gear, when compared to unassailable US of A or any other
European country, and people shouldn’t use it, it would be irresponsible of you not to share it! If you’re just making it up because it’s fun to yell “Dadgum Chiner!”, maybe save it for conversations about furniture or towel racks.

I could definitely be wrong though.

 

[rhagenw]

I was more thinking of studies on actual quality control, failure rates, etc of serious stuff. Not the opinions of consumer goods of 40,000 laypeople, subject to their noise and biases.

I have no doubt that poor quality goods from China permeate our world because supply follows demand. People addicted to cheap stuff, will of course generate a demand Consumer reports have very little to do with the topic at hand though.

I would argue the dead horse is worth beating, when we’re talking about people’s limbs and lives. If you’ve got good data to support your hypothesis that China sucks at making climbing gear, when compared to unassailable US of A or any other
European country, and people shouldn’t use it, it would be irresponsible of you not to share it! If you’re just making it up because it’s fun to yell “Dadgum Chiner!”, maybe save it for conversations about furniture or towel racks.

I could definitely be wrong though.

What about lack of civil rights and forced labor in China? Lack of transparency? That’s why I won’t support companies who source China labor

 

[tailgunner]

I am not saying American products are perfect and that they never had a recall. But the percentages are much lower.
What I am saying is that China has the reputation for the worst quality in the world.
So when you climb a tree, you are taking a chance. Why not use the best equipment you can to minimize the risk. The fact that you saved a few $ wont matter if you are in a wheel chair the rest of your life. If you cannot afford top quality climbing gear, then don't climb. Hunt off the ground, save your money until you can afford good gear.

Kong Carabiners have never been recalled.
Lone Wolf Climbing sticks have never been recalled.

Muddy sticks have been;
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2012/m...sticks-due-to-risk-of-serious-injury-or-death
XOP sticks have been;

Xtreme Outdoor Products Recalls Climbing Sticks Due to Fall Hazard and Risk of Serious Injury

Consumers should immediately stop using the recalled climbing sticks and return them to Xtreme Outdoor Products (XOP) for a full refund or refund in the form of a store credit.

www.cpsc.gov

Ameristeps have been;

Primal Vantage Recalls Plastic Tree Steps Due to Fall Hazard

www.cpsc.gov

Which ones do you want to use?

my dude took me literaly.that was awsome.love you bro .if you can tell by my writing i just say stupid shhhh.and i agree with you 1000 percent.merka i still use the recalled ameristeps for a ring of steps

 

[kyler1945]

What about lack of civil rights and forced labor in China? Lack of transparency? That’s why I won’t support companies who source China labor

right on. China, as in, the state, is certainly worth us raising cane.

 

[Plebe]

right on. China, as in, the state, is certainly worth us raising cane.

If the state rules, where does industry there take its lead?