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College, Car, and Home Costs for Our Kids

My boys will never see a college campus = a lot of money saved. Though my oldest can if he wanted bc I transferred my GI bill to him but so far he wants nothing to do with college so he’s on the right track in my book. I have 5 so we’ll see when they all get to that age. I’ve never been a proponent of school to be clear knowledge is one of the most important things to wade through life 2nd to respect and pride but school and that structure is garbage at best. Ban school teach life.
 
My boys will never see a college campus = a lot of money saved. Though my oldest can if he wanted bc I transferred my GI bill to him but so far he wants nothing to do with college so he’s on the right track in my book. I have 5 so we’ll see when they all get to that age. I’ve never been a proponent of school to be clear knowledge is one of the most important things to wade through life 2nd to respect and pride but school and that structure is garbage at best. Ban school teach life.
With the exception of a very few career paths, I am inclined to agree with you.
 
With the exception of a very few career paths, I am inclined to agree with you.
Yes, medical and certain things I agree also but luckily here in Louisiana there’s plenty of work without college that pay very well though money should never be the motive. I’m hoping by the time they’re of age keeping the homestead going will be the full time job of all of us.
 
My boys will never see a college campus = a lot of money saved. Though my oldest can if he wanted bc I transferred my GI bill to him but so far he wants nothing to do with college so he’s on the right track in my book. I have 5 so we’ll see when they all get to that age. I’ve never been a proponent of school to be clear knowledge is one of the most important things to wade through life 2nd to respect and pride but school and that structure is garbage at best. Ban school teach life.
I respectfully disagree with you on the topic. College is the punch in the face that I think all 'kids' need to experience once to know if its for them. If its not, so be it, but give it a chance. A college degree by itself means nothing, but it provide some proof that they can actually do some hard work because high school is only as hard as you want it to be. You can graduate high school with basic algebra or 'statistic'.

I work for a company that provide computer networking services. My office is a good mixture of people with degrees and no degrees. The one with degrees VASTLY out earn the non-degree folks. No matter the actual skill set each person have, that paywall is hard to overcome and take longer to climb without a college degree. No, money is not the deciding factor but career growth and advancement opportunity is. Those who learn and eveloped good work habits produce more result, which in turn are given more chances to shine. I have a 24 year old sitting right next to me who is the star of the office and is probably going to be my boss in a few years, he got recruited by the company before he even graduated college 2 years ago.

But I will admit that I grew up in a very good neighborhood and good school system. My wife tell me that I didn't have the typical high school experience. My class of 529 students, only 11 didn't graduate. All the 'popular' kids were the smart one that end up going to good universities. Our prom king and queen were the valedictorian and salutatorian. Biggest and move funded group was the debate team.
 
I respectfully disagree with you on the topic. College is the punch in the face that I think all 'kids' need to experience once to know if its for them. If its not, so be it, but give it a chance. A college degree by itself means nothing, but it provide some proof that they can actually do some hard work because high school is only as hard as you want it to be. You can graduate high school with basic algebra or 'statistic'.

I work for a company that provide computer networking services. My office is a good mixture of people with degrees and no degrees. The one with degrees VASTLY out earn the non-degree folks. No matter the actual skill set each person have, that paywall is hard to overcome and take longer to climb without a college degree. No, money is not the deciding factor but career growth and advancement opportunity is. Those who learn and eveloped good work habits produce more result, which in turn are given more chances to shine. I have a 24 year old sitting right next to me who is the star of the office and is probably going to be my boss in a few years, he got recruited by the company before he even graduated college 2 years ago.

But I will admit that I grew up in a very good neighborhood and good school system. My wife tell me that I didn't have the typical high school experience. My class of 529 students, only 11 didn't graduate. All the 'popular' kids were the smart one that end up going to good universities. Our prom king and queen were the valedictorian and salutatorian. Biggest and move funded group was the debate team.
They can get an equal and possibly better “punch” in the face than college without the risk of losing their minds without going to college, for me it was the military (which I also don’t want my boys doing) for them who knows what it’ll be. 99% of what colleges can teach can be learned by reading, applying it is where the bridge needs to connect. And I’ve never worked an office job but in all industries I’ve been In I’ve found the degrees people vastly get outperformed by veterans in the workforce, I have an associates in engineering but I always say I get hired strictly off my resume my personality and my military service not my menial degree. I’ve found that a lot of people with degrees hide behind the piece of paper to say “I know this!” Yet again I say knowledge is paramount but if you can’t apply it it’s useless. Now granted I’ve never been nor would want to be in a corporate setting mainly fitness industry, real estate or oilfield.
 
I didn't mean it to come off accusatory. I just don't get the whole "saving for kid's college" deal.
I'm on board with your line of thinking. I can tell you when I was in college, I could look around the room and tell you which kids had parents paying their tuition and which kids were doing it for themselves. I've always told people that if they are fortunate enough to be able to afford to pay for their kids college, then give them the money when they graduate, not before.
 
There are plenty of career paths that a college degree (or sometimes an advanced degree) is necessary. There are also plenty of career paths that a college degree is not necessary. One of my kids (young so it'll likely change) currently wants to be an astronaut when they are grown up. You don't get to space without a degree so I personally think that adopting an anti-college stance is limiting to kids, and I choose to save for the potential expense. Better to have savings and not need it than need it and not have it.

That said, I think this thread drifting into the merits of a college degree (or not) is pulling it further off course, and everyone's entitled to their opinion (even though those of you that disagree with me are wrong ;) ). The original question was about saving for planned expenses, and estimations about what those expenses are forecasted to be, not asking for us to weigh in on if we think it's a good use of money to save for it.
 
I didn't mean it to come off accusatory. I just don't get the whole "saving for kid's college" deal.
My thoughts are as follows.

My income potential is drastically higher than it was when I was 17-21. 5-6x what it was and increasing at an encouraging rate. College is going up at a rate that outpaces wages, as discussed ad nauseum here. As hard as it was for me to put myself through school, even with a "full ride" merit-based scholarship that covered tuition, it will be harder for my kid to do it. As somebody who tested in the 95ish percentile on ACTs, ASVABS, entry and exit exams, I can tell you that merit-based scholarships are very hard to come by. I was not able to get the degree that I wanted. To do so, I'd have had to take out unsubsidized loans each year.

I lost my scholarship in my final year. I needed a 3.5 to keep it, and that was tough for somebody who was smart but enrolled full time and working 2-3 part time jobs. The $11k dollar loan cost me 12.37% in interest. It could have been cheaper, buy my parents would not even co-sign on a loan with me because "tough love, make your own way, we don't owe you anything."

My wife and I paid that loan fairly quickly, but during our starting years it was tough. We never really "went without," to make it happen, but we definitely deferred retirement contributions during a time when that money would have had the biggest impact to our nest egg.

I have extra money, time, and interest on my side if I save for her college. She will have none of those things. If she gets a loan, interest and time work against her instead of for her. It is drastically easier for me to pay that bill.

I have a very hard time with the line of thinking that your kid should have to struggle like you did. The whole point of me struggling with my issues is so that my kid can struggle with new ones. My parents struggled through issues caused by broken homes, absentee parents, abuse, and poverty. I didn't have to struggle through those issues, because they beat them. Instead, I struggled to go to college, something that neither my parents nor my in-laws achieved. I'd like my daughter to struggle for things I never got the chance to struggle for. A PhD. Establishing a franchise. Curing cancer. If they fumble the ball I passed, that's on them, although I think the issue of raising ****ty, entitled kids is a separate one from setting them up for financial success. I know plenty of entitled, arrogant, lazy trailer trash. I know plenty of hardworking, down-to-earth kids who never had to worry about whether or not they'd be able to go to school.

I also think the people who think college is just "book-learnin'" are very mistaken. My boss, for example, is a smart guy with plenty of book learnin'. But far more valuable to him than the books he read or the paper hanging on the wall in his office is the fact that he met his business' cofounder in school, and he and his web developer (who is spooky-smart) shared a dorm room. People may not like to hear this, but college can put you in an environment where you have a chance to make friends with smart people who's parents made enough disposable income to put them in that room. Ask ole Zuckerberg about that.

Sure, I met losers who were just there because college was daycare for teenagers and young adults. But you'll meet those everywhere. As somebody who worked for 5 years in a college catering to military personnel, first responders, and tradesmen, I have no fantasies about those positions being filled exclusively by straight-shooting, down-to-earth, roll-up-ya-sleeves, get'er done folks who went to the school of hard knocks. Some of them were, and some of them were up-to-their eyeballs in student loan debt and had 40 credit hours to show for it.

Student loans, by the way, are currently still non-forgivable debt. Doesn't matter what life circumstances your kid ends up in, Sallie Mae gets her money one way or another. But if you max out 7 credit cards on Tethrd crap, Unc' Sam will let you file Chapter 7.

Also, everybody seems blind to the fact that I have a girl. Look at career fields where women earn good incomes equivalent to their male counterparts. What do they require?
 
In response to the last two sentences, no I don't personally know any women that do what I do. There are tons if them in the white collar space telling trade dudes like me what to do. It's not weird or anything, they do that stuff and I do this stuff. It's fun sometimes to compare notes, and the women show a lot more interest and curiosity about my work than any of their male count parts ever do


I also can't help myself.

You're daughters aren't freaking special to anyone but you. They can do my job or any other job. Get over it
 
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My thoughts are as follows.

My income potential is drastically higher than it was when I was 17-21. 5-6x what it was and increasing at an encouraging rate. College is going up at a rate that outpaces wages, as discussed ad nauseum here. As hard as it was for me to put myself through school, even with a "full ride" merit-based scholarship that covered tuition, it will be harder for my kid to do it. As somebody who tested in the 95ish percentile on ACTs, ASVABS, entry and exit exams, I can tell you that merit-based scholarships are very hard to come by. I was not able to get the degree that I wanted. To do so, I'd have had to take out unsubsidized loans each year.

I lost my scholarship in my final year. I needed a 3.5 to keep it, and that was tough for somebody who was smart but enrolled full time and working 2-3 part time jobs. The $11k dollar loan cost me 12.37% in interest. It could have been cheaper, buy my parents would not even co-sign on a loan with me because "tough love, make your own way, we don't owe you anything."

My wife and I paid that loan fairly quickly, but during our starting years it was tough. We never really "went without," to make it happen, but we definitely deferred retirement contributions during a time when that money would have had the biggest impact to our nest egg.

I have extra money, time, and interest on my side if I save for her college. She will have none of those things. If she gets a loan, interest and time work against her instead of for her. It is drastically easier for me to pay that bill.

I have a very hard time with the line of thinking that your kid should have to struggle like you did. The whole point of me struggling with my issues is so that my kid can struggle with new ones. My parents struggled through issues caused by broken homes, absentee parents, abuse, and poverty. I didn't have to struggle through those issues, because they beat them. Instead, I struggled to go to college, something that neither my parents nor my in-laws achieved. I'd like my daughter to struggle for things I never got the chance to struggle for. A PhD. Establishing a franchise. Curing cancer. If they fumble the ball I passed, that's on them, although I think the issue of raising ****ty, entitled kids is a separate one from setting them up for financial success. I know plenty of entitled, arrogant, lazy trailer trash. I know plenty of hardworking, down-to-earth kids who never had to worry about whether or not they'd be able to go to school.

I also think the people who think college is just "book-learnin'" are very mistaken. My boss, for example, is a smart guy with plenty of book learnin'. But far more valuable to him than the books he read or the paper hanging on the wall in his office is the fact that he met his business' cofounder in school, and he and his web developer (who is spooky-smart) shared a dorm room. People may not like to hear this, but college can put you in an environment where you have a chance to make friends with smart people who's parents made enough disposable income to put them in that room. Ask ole Zuckerberg about that.

Sure, I met losers who were just there because college was daycare for teenagers and young adults. But you'll meet those everywhere. As somebody who worked for 5 years in a college catering to military personnel, first responders, and tradesmen, I have no fantasies about those positions being filled exclusively by straight-shooting, down-to-earth, roll-up-ya-sleeves, get'er done folks who went to the school of hard knocks. Some of them were, and some of them were up-to-their eyeballs in student loan debt and had 40 credit hours to show for it.

Student loans, by the way, are currently still non-forgivable debt. Doesn't matter what life circumstances your kid ends up in, Sallie Mae gets her money one way or another. But if you max out 7 credit cards on Tethrd crap, Unc' Sam will let you file Chapter 7.

Also, everybody seems blind to the fact that I have a girl. Look at career fields where women earn good incomes equivalent to their male counterparts. What do they require?
This just hasn't been mine, my kids'(one girl), or my parents' experience with money for college. It was very easy to get merit based scholarships (keeping up with school work and studying), and there was no "working my way through school". Getting a full scholarship and keeping it EARNS free room and board with parents. A part time job gets transportation money. The job that comes after gets you a house. My parents kept on me about homework; I kept on my kids about homework. Full ride scholarships are the benefit of that. Put in the time and investment before they get to college to show them what their hard work EARNS.
 
In response to the last two sentences, no I don't personally know any women that do what I do. There are tons if them in the white collar space telling trade dudes like me what to do. It's not weird or anything, they do that stuff and I do this stuff. It's fun sometimes to compare notes, and the women show a lot more interest and curiosity about my work than any of their male count parts ever do


I also can't help myself.

You're daughters aren't freaking special to anyone but you. They can do my job or any other job. Get over it
I have to agree. I see as much women in my workspace as I do men, EXCEPT for the old guards that are slowly being replaced by an equal number of men and women. Yes there are mostly men at the top, but this is simply due to the fact that they have been around longer. The mid level bosses and manager are equally men and women in my fields.

Women are also over represented in the medical fields, not just nurse but doctors too.

But @Nutterbuster I agree with you about not passing our struggle to our kids. My parent struggles for years so I can even have the chance to go to school in the US, I'm doing the best I can to open doors for my kids, even if they choice not to walk through the door, my responsibility is to make sure they have the ability to use any doors they can.
 
my responsibility is to make sure they have the ability to use any doors they can.
This.

Daniel Dennett has been a big influence on me lately, particularly as pertains to his theories on free will. He takes a sort of middle-of-the road, compatibilist position between Cartesian free will and hardline deterministic materialism. He posits that we possess "degrees of freedom." Nobody possesses absolute free will, but some individuals have a much freer will than others.

A college degree obtained debt free doesn't close any doors. Kiddo can decide she wants to enlist, or learn to MIG weld, or marry a famous athlete and get a tit job. But if she wants to be a partner at an accounting firm, or an MD, or an internationally-recognized biologist (3 real examples from women close to me) those doors are barred unless she has a degree.

I do acknowledge that trade jobs are becoming less lopsided. But if you look at the rate of change over time I don't anticipate planning for that to be statistically the best move. And there are still all the other points we've discussed.

Getting a full scholarship and keeping it EARNS free room and board with parents.
Again, degrees of freedom. We're looking at moving to college-adjacent communities for several reasons, but that approach drastically reduces options. Personally I missed out on a lot of social opportunities because I was almost an hour away from campus. I had to pass on a lot of extracurricular stuff that would have been beneficial to me.

That said, I'm glad it worked for yall. I acknowledge fully that there are many paths to success.
 
I have to agree. I see as much women in my workspace as I do men, EXCEPT for the old guards that are slowly being replaced by an equal number of men and women. Yes there are mostly men at the top, but this is simply due to the fact that they have been around longer. The mid level bosses and manager are equally men and women in my fields.

Women are also over represented in the medical fields, not just nurse but doctors too.

But @Nutterbuster I agree with you about not passing our struggle to our kids. My parent struggles for years so I can even have the chance to go to school in the US, I'm doing the best I can to open doors for my kids, even if they choice not to walk through the door, my responsibility is to make sure they have the ability to use any doors they can.
There are many more female nurses than male, as well as nurses aide etc, so the "total healthcare jobs" stats skew female, but that includes the non degree/associates degree jobs. It flips with doctors (jobs that require an advanced degree), it's still around 2/3 male at that level.

But I'm 100% with ya both re: not passing on our struggles. #girldad
 
Dont have kids so take this for whatever you think it is worth. From the cheap seats, my observations are not nearly enough parents demonstrate and teach, most demand and expect if they even try much to parent. I believe if you raise a child by demonstrating and teaching good work ethic, responsibility, good moral character, sound thinking, the importance of learning not just formal education, that child will be prepared to succeed in whatever course they choose to follow. I 100% agree with not using a 529 plan as the saving vehicle because there is no way possible for you know what course she may be driven to follow when that time comes.
 
I have a twin brother, who happens to have a masters degree from Georgetown. He works and has worked in his field just as long as I have mine. Y'all take a guess who earns more moolah. That  might flip in the next 5 years, we'll be in our low 40s then.
 
I am counting down the days until my kids are off my payroll! That is all I know!
You know what, I think defining moment that you can say you were good parent is at your grandkid's graduation and you can say to yourself.

"I didn't have to spend any money toward the grandkids except for Christmas, birthdays, and ice cream. I don't have to help them out for college and they are not moving in with me because they HAVE to."

This means that your grandkid's parent (your kid) are doing ok as parent.
 
Dont have kids so take this for whatever you think it is worth. From the cheap seats, my observations are not nearly enough parents demonstrate and teach, most demand and expect if they even try much to parent. I believe if you raise a child by demonstrating and teaching good work ethic, responsibility, good moral character, sound thinking, the importance of learning not just formal education, that child will be prepared to succeed in whatever course they choose to follow. I 100% agree with not using a 529 plan as the saving vehicle because there is no way possible for you know what course she may be driven to follow when that time comes.
Kids absolutely soak up what they see daily better than what you tell them occasionally. I have never raised my voice at my wife because in 30+ years my father never raised his at my mother. It isn't something I try not to do, it's something that just doesn't cross my mind because I'd never seen it. I'm banking on my kid noticing the fact that dad reads and writes every day, and that the adults at the table have open-minded discourse about they things they've read lately, and that mom and dad sit down quarterly and talk shop. We're also figuring out how we want to go about establishing her credit score, and handling an allowance (whole nuther thread right there.)

My understanding is that a 529 can be rolled over to a 401k in your kid's name once they're at age with no penalty. I fully intend to have the "You can have 200k towards education now, or if you pay for it yourself or otherwise forgo it, you can have 3 million in 47 years when you retire. Or you can have 200k minus tax and a 10% penalty if you want to buy the Mustang." I don't want to force a kid into college, but I'll nudge one hard that way. ;)

@kyler1945, how's that sound for a marshmallow test?
 
529 plans have tax benefits in my state, plus the benefit of tax free capital gains. If you try to save elsewhere you have to pay those gains. If you use a 529 and your kids don't end up going to school, you still have the money. You don't lose it. IF you decide to cash it out for non educational purposes (there are ways to make use of it without a cash out) you just owe the capital gains taxes you would have had to pay anyway if you had used a regular savings vehicle (it wasn't really all your money). There's really no downside that I am aware of. I might be mistaken.

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As far as women in trades, I'd say it's because women don't want to do those jobs more so than the men won't let them in. My sister in law operates construction equipment in Chicago. She can basically work for whoever she wants and probably gets paid more because she's a woman. I'm sure it varies by location and probably more so by trade (physical strength requirements), but in a lot of cases, being female would help with scoring a job.

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