Don't use Rage Chisel Points with twisted tip!!

[Bwhana]

How can anyone prove a BH opened in flight? Maybe your friend got the fever and just made a bad shot....

A I can say is this guy is as hard core, if not more, than Dan or John E. with the trophy room to prove it, but does not do it for public consumption, so you'll never hear of him. He has it on camera. It happened a few times in practice, but ignored it and thought it would not happen again. He switched immediately and will never go back.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[Jtaylor]

It's funny how dynamic the hunting industry is. Look at the forum we're on. I myself would have never thought of hunting out of a saddle. I probably would've never shot a mechanical broadhead either until I kept losing animals to fixed (due to me getting buck fever around 12-14 yrs. old) was my bow, arrow tuned and shot angle correct? I had no idea back then, I just had fun getting out and hunting. I switched to a mechanical head and shot a big doe and she ran maybe 20 yds. and piled up. I was hooked on mechanicals. Those mechanicals gave me the confidence to keep hunting. Will they deploy mid flight? Maybe so but they're so easy to track (I've never had one deploy mid flight.) Mechanicals have their place. I'm not going to use a Rage on my recurve. Anyways, I guess what I'm trying to say is the hunting industry is dynamic and the mechanical/fixed is nearly as age old as good/evil it'll probably change within a year or so and everyone will be hunting with atlatls.

 

[IkemanTX]

I’ve always slung a G5 montec and had good penetration. I am planning to really up my arrow weight next year and getting some bishop heads for an elk trip and plan on leaving it at that setup for whitetail as well.

 

[Peterk1234]

Been biting my tongue so far, but what the heck. I will preface my comments with the fact that I have been using archery on animals for about 40 years and used to shoot in competitions, so I know a little bit. Most bows out today can outshoot their shooter, even a Walmart special. Most people overestimate their skills and therefore take shots at angles and distances they have zero business taking. They like to blame the resulting issues on their broadheads, thus threads like this one. When it comes to broadheads, there are a few truths that everyone should consider.

First truth is that you can kill a deer with nothing more than a field point, IF properly placed. Yes, I did it once to say I could. That means ANY broadhead made will kill a deer if shot placement is correct. Proper placement is all that really matters and everything else is just entertaining chat!

Second truth is that a fixed blade, cut on impact head will kill and not fail out of a properly tuned bow, but sadly, most bows are not properly tuned in the field and folks turn to mechs to make up for tuning. I will also add that most pro shops do not fully tune bows leaving their shops, they just don't seem to have or take the time and expect shooters to do so on their own. You may get less blood with a smaller fixed head, but you usually end up with a deer on the ground either within or just out of sight too.

Final truth is that with Rage or any other mechs, if you shoot them enough times on animals, you WILL experience a premature blade deployment, lack of blade deployment, or some other type of failure, period. Just hope it is not on the biggest buck of your life!

I am not saying not to shoot mechs, but if you do, know what you signed up for when they let you down, your choice.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Very, very well said. I shot spitfires for a long time. They were deadly. Those blades would twist all over the place going through the animal and just put it down. But a couple of years ago I decided to learn how to tune my bow so I could shoot any broadhead. My goal was to get rid of mechanicals. Why? Because it is mechanical and things can just fail. Fixed blade there is no failure, just a bad shot. I have to say I cannot be happier. I have various FB heads saved over the years. Makes no difference which one I shoot. They all go in the same place, where I aim. So now I have the choice of any broadhead, including mechanicals.

Every hunting forum has these threads about bad broadheads. I am sure some mechanicals will fail because it is relying on moving parts. Maybe it opens early. Maybe a blade has a slight bend so it just stays stuck in the closed position. Maybe dirt got in there and and it gets stuck. Or a tiny branch on the way opens it. But I think it is rare. I did make the switch just in case. All the broadheads from the major manufacturers today are just incredible, mechanical or fixed. As for chisel tips, it is what I prefer because I find them to function well if it is quartering away. That is when I think many of us have issues, a more than usual quartered away shots.

@Bwhana is spot on. In our minds we think, "I know I made a good shot". When I think back to my last shot on a deer, in reality I was oblivious to the usual steps I take. I have been working very hard in this off season, shooting many arrows at a 3d target at various angles so I have good habits ingrained in me. I have been lucky so far and have always recovered, but last year was a gut shot. That was too close for comfort. She died on me about 150 yards away but that was the longest seven hours of my life. I have to give kudos though to my FB broadhead. That damn thing is so sharp that it nicked a vain on its way through and finished the job. Only found droplets, but it was enough. Tell you this much............ I prefer a gut shot over nailing that shoulder all day long. While my FB will probably blow through it, I do not want to take the chance. Not to mention that the arrow will probably stay in there and plug up any blood trail. Gut shot kills. You just have to be patient and pray the yotes do not find your deer. This particular deer did exactly what you all have read in the instructional books. Headed to water and just laid down beside it. The key was not to push it. My practice this past year was to aim a bit farther back, not where they put those stupid ten point rings in traditional 3d targets.

One last thing. The attraction to mechanicals (other than not having to tune bow perfect) is that it affords us to shoot blades with a much larger cutting radius, often a half inch or more. I agonized over this when going to fixed blades. Then I thought to myself, a bad shot is a bad shot. While that half inch could help, does it really matter? Am I only going to screw up by a half inch? Probably not. My bad shot will probably miss high or low and nothing will help me except practice. So I now focus only on making a good shot

Pete

 

[Bwhana]

Fixed it for ya!

Stuff happens. Heck, I've watched deer walk out of my life with 165 grain corelokts in their breast basket. To paraphrase a great man.

"Hunting is sad, hunting's a bust.
All ya can do, is shoot if ya must.
Ya shoot what ya must shoot, and ya shoot it well.
Well, I'd shoot it too! Honey baby can't ya tell."

I followed this mantra for many years... If you don't let it fly, he won't die! Worked out about 9 out of 10 shots for me over the years, but I am old and wiser now. Very true that ****e happens, and more so with a bow. They should just ban them along with the Ropeman 1, paracord, and every elevated hunting option.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[Gator]

I had a buddy put compound bow broadheads on a crossbow bolt. His dumb fault for not reading the package, but those things opened in flight on three shots. First shot opened early, nicked deer’s femoral artery (luckily) and it died after running no less than a mile at with a volleyball sized slit across its ham.
Second and third shots opened early on a single doe, and missed her clean both times before she spooked off (luckily). It was at this point that my buddy said, “oh damn something is wrong.”
He took the bow with him to the shop when he needed another pack of heads, and the tech told him the speed of the bow was too much for the normal broadheads, which is why they made crossbow-specific heads (duh, read the package before you buy). The superior speed caused the broadheads to “think” they were hitting terminal velocity with the forces on release, and opened them as if they had impacted something in flight, veering them widely off-course.
He bought some xbow broadheads of the same type and boom, no more careening shots.
Long way of saying it CAN happen, but it’s not easy to tell and it’s not likely if you are using the correct equipment for your setup.

I could care less about that. There’s a reason they make BHs just for Crossguns


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gator]

A I can say is this guy is as hard core, if not more, than Dan or John E. with the trophy room to prove it, but does not do it for public consumption, so you'll never hear of him. He has it on camera. It happened a few times in practice, but ignored it and thought it would not happen again. He switched immediately and will never go back.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Again everyone should shoot what they are comfortable with but I don’t care about this guys reputation. People all choke so again how did he know it was the BHs fault? Just the thought that it couldn’t of been his fault???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Garrymny]

Again everyone should shoot what they are comfortable with but I don’t care about this guys reputation. People all choke so again how did he know it was the BHs fault? Just the thought that it couldn’t of been his fault???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The first shot was about 20 yards. The next two shots were at 10 yards with the deer standing broadside. the bow is Mathews Legacy. About 65 lbs. Beeman carbon arrows. I am perplexed over this. I am attaching a picture of one of the actual heads. I didn't mean to start something. I'm just trying to save someone else from a bad experience. Those arrows should have punched all The way through. I have killed a half dozen deer with the rages with the razor tip. But the first deer I shot with the twisted chisel tip did this. The helical fletching only spins the arrow in flight, with air flowing over the fletching. On impact, it's effect ceases. But the twisted chisel tip will cause the arrow to screw into the flesh. This turning kills penetration. This is the only plausible explanation to me. My theory.

 

[Blinginpse]

I've banged more deer with rages than you probably have ladies. I hope your strokes wasnt as far off as your shots probably was

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[Jtaylor]

I've banged more deer with rages than you probably have ladies. I hope your strokes wasnt as far off as your shots probably was

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Just about brought a tear to my eye laughing.

 

[bj139]

Please show a picture of the Chisel tip. I want to see if it the same Chisel tip I am talking about.

I looked all over the package to find if I was shooting the wrong broadheads since I'm using a crossbow and I see nothing. It does say that in the state of California these broadheads can be dangerous if you chew on them. Go figure.
I did shoot my doe through some brush and I figured that may have opened the blades before deer impact so there is a full width entry wound.

 

[Kowi Anukasha]

Let's face it whitetail deer are not cape buffalo nor are they an Alaskan brown bear, they are thin skinned light muscled and relatively light bone. Your setup should be able to push even a dull 2 blade rage chisel tip through that deer at 10 yards. That being said a whitetail can be a very hard to kill at times, as they are an animal with a will to live like no other. Since I was not present to see the actual shot placement and how the broad head preformed or didn't preform in this case I'll have to take your word for it that they didn't do the job. I will say that I have killed three deer and two hogs with with the exact model of broad head you posted and they preformed flawlessly. In fact one hog and two deer were with the same head, I just resharpened the blades to a shaving edge and back to work they went. I have been blessed to have taken my share of mature whitetail bucks from multiple states from the Midwest the South and the East coast and have never been shy about shooting my limit does for meat along the way. All that adds up to a lot of blood trails and a lot of dead deer. For the past twelve years they have all been with a Rage 2 blade of one model or another. This is not to say any broad head would not have effective its just that I have confidence in a rage 2 blade of what ever model to consistently and quickly put deer down if I do my part. You should absolutely not use these heads as it is obvious you have lost confidence in them but from my experience I don't believe the product is flawed. Confidence is by far the most effective tool we have when attempting to take animal with a bow. A quote I once heard comes to mind. "Two people both attempt the same shot at the same target. One thinks he can make it the other thinks he can't. The fact is they are both correct." Put even a dull fixed blade or for that matter a failed- to- open mechanical no matter what the tip configuration in the correct spot and a dead deer in a short amount of time is the result. Good luck on the rest of your season and in finding a head you have confidence in.

 

[Swingin' Free]

A

 

[shwacker]

I looked all over the package to find if I was shooting the wrong broadheads since I'm using a crossbow and I see nothing. It does say that in the state of California these broadheads can be dangerous if you chew on them. Go figure.
I did shoot my doe through some brush and I figured that may have opened the blades before deer impact so there is a full width entry wound.

No idea about crossbow use.

But the full width or even over 2 inch entry wound is the norm for this style head, part of why I switched from spitfires. Never lost any on spitfires but a couple and no fault of the head, but due to the over the top VS the rear deployment, the spitfires had a very small entry wound. Had a couple that didn’t pass though and blood trail was difficult with the small entry.

Rage is usually a good trail, and for pass throughs it’s ketchup everywhere!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Garrymny]

I looked all over the package to find if I was shooting the wrong broadheads since I'm using a crossbow and I see nothing. It does say that in the state of California these broadheads can be dangerous if you chew on them. Go figure.
I did shoot my doe through some brush and I figured that may have opened the blades before deer impact so there is a full width entry wound.

Yep, that's what I was using. Never again. Think about a screw. The twisted chisel tip will definitely cause the head to turn as it goes in. This turning creates friction on the side of the blades and will reduce penetration effectiveness. Physics. You want the razor blades to push straight through, not turns as they go. I think those that use these blades successfully have been lucky. I recommend using the rage two blade with the razor tip. They cut on contact, with no twist or turning after impact. My advice. Take it or leave it. Here is picture of what use now and what I always used before I bought the chisel tip ones.

 

[robertreed711]

Yep, that's what I was using. Never again. Think about a screw. The twisted chisel tip will definitely cause the head to turn as it goes in. This turning creates friction on the side of the blades and will reduce penetration effectiveness. Physics. You want the razor blades to push straight through, not turns as they go. I think those that use these blades successfully have been lucky. I recommend using the rage two blade with the razor tip. They cut on contact, with no twist or turning after impact. My advice. Take it or leave it.

You know the arrow is already turning, right?

 

[Gator]

Yep, that's what I was using. Never again. Think about a screw. The twisted chisel tip will definitely cause the head to turn as it goes in. This turning creates friction on the side of the blades and will reduce penetration effectiveness. Physics. You want the razor blades to push straight through, not turns as they go. I think those that use these blades successfully have been lucky. I recommend using the rage two blade with the razor tip. They cut on contact, with no twist or turning after impact. My advice. Take it or leave it.

Thanks for your concern but I'll leave it. My arrow is already spinning in flight so that little twist on the tip of the broadhead isn't doing anything IMO.

 

[Swingin' Free]

Yep, that's what I was using. Never again. Think about a screw. The twisted chisel tip will definitely cause the head to turn as it goes in. This turning creates friction on the side of the blades and will reduce penetration effectiveness. Physics. You want the razor blades to push straight through, not turns as they go. I think those that use these blades successfully have been lucky. I recommend using the rage two blade with the razor tip. They cut on contact, with no twist or turning after impact. My advice. Take it or leave it.

I'm no physicist but I really doubt that itsy bitsy tip is affecting very much. Not enough surface area to produce enough force to move much. Bones will stop broadheads, fixed or mechanical doesn't make much difference. The shoulder, while a large target isn't the spot to be shooting a deer. We can get away with alot with our faster bows these days, but don't think we're at the point of going through both shoulders.
Shot placement
Shot placement

 

[DaWiz9578]

 

[Garrymny]

Thanks for your concern but I'll leave it. My arrow is already spinning in flight so that little twist on the tip of the broadhead isn't doing anything IMO.

Again, the spin caused by air flowing over the fletching stops on impact. No air flow. The Chisel tip with the twist will then cause the rotation as it goes through the hide flesh etc. But it's okay, use what you want. I just related my experience and tried to explain something I was perplexed about. Good luck to you.