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Eberhart Signature Saddle Intro

GCTerpfan

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I believe so. Not sure why John didn’t just use their manufacturer for his saddle. I get the feeling this is an Eberhart saddle that Tethrd collaborated with on features and then are allowing him to sell it on their site.
He has the right to make his saddle anywhere he chooses, but putting that pseudo American flag on the product trying to mislead people is what I have a problem with.

I may be wrong but, I don't think those decisions were John's. I am pretty sure this is a Tethrd saddle and John just offered his input on the design. I would bet that all manufacturing decisions were Tethrds.

Also, I am not sure that Tethrd makes all of their saddles in the USA anymore. I don't have Facebook but, I remember several people reporting this last year. https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/tethrd-predator-made-in-usa.19385/post-274803 There was a lengthy thread on here about it at the time but, I can't find it at the moment.
 

Aaronpaul14

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I may be wrong but, I don't think those decisions were John's. I am pretty sure this is a Tethrd saddle and John just offered his input on the design. I would bet that all manufacturing decisions were Tethrds.

Also, I am not sure that Tethrd makes all of their saddles in the USA anymore. I don't have Facebook but, I remember several people reporting this last year. https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/tethrd-predator-made-in-usa.19385/post-274803 There was a lengthy thread on here about it at the time but, I can't find it at the moment.

Just looked up on their site and accessories are in China but saddles and platforms are USA.


c6aa9aa83d49c1f22e3eb2e1a77e0e41.jpg
 
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GCTerpfan

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Just looked up on their site and accessories are in China but saddles and platforms are USA.


c6aa9aa83d49c1f22e3eb2e1a77e0e41.jpg

That says the Phantom is made in the USA. The ESS we know isn't. I am pretty sure the stink last year was that the sewing for the Mantis was sent overseas but, their saddles have never appealed to me so I haven't followed the saga closely.

But, my main point was that I am almost positive manufacturing decisions regarding the ESS were Tethrds, not Johns.
 

iamcorey

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That says the Phantom is made in the USA. The ESS we know isn't. I am pretty sure the stink last year was that the sewing for the Mantis was sent overseas but, their saddles have never appealed to me so I haven't followed the saga closely.

But, my main point was that I am almost positive manufacturing decisions regarding the ESS were Tethrds, not Johns.

Makes sense. Last year there weren’t enough US sew houses to keep up with demand. Now they have multiple product lines and minimal wait times.


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Navigator

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Aaronpaul14,

I notice that logo is not on the Mantis' product page. That logo looks awfully like the one on the ESS under John's signature. There are FTC guidelines that Tethrd should be familiar with about complying with the Made in the USA claim. They can be located here: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard

THE STANDARD FOR UNQUALIFIED MADE IN USA CLAIMS
What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?
For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

What does "all or virtually all" mean?
"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content.

What substantiation is required for a Made in USA claim?
When a manufacturer or marketer makes an unqualified claim that a product is Made in USA, it should have — and rely on — a "reasonable basis" to support the claim at the time it is made. This means a manufacturer or marketer needs competent and reliable evidence to back up the claim that its product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

THE FTC AND THE CUSTOMS SERVICE
What is the U.S. Customs Service’s jurisdiction over country-of-origin claims?
The Tariff Act gives Customs and the Secretary of the Treasury the power to administer the requirement that imported goods be marked with a foreign country of origin (for example, "Made in Japan").


WHAT TO DO ABOUT VIOLATIONS
What if I suspect noncompliance with the FTC’s Made in USA standard or other country-of-origin mislabeling?
Information about possible illegal activity helps law enforcement officials target companies whose practices warrant scrutiny. If you suspect noncompliance, contact the Division of Enforcement, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, DC 20580; (202) 326-2996 or send an e-mail to MUSA@ftc.gov. If you know about import or export fraud, call Customs’ toll-free Commercial Fraud Hotline, 1-800-ITS-FAKE. Examples of fraudulent practices involving imports include removing a required foreign origin label before the product is delivered to the ultimate purchaser (with or without the improper substitution of a Made in USA label) and failing to label a product with a required country of origin.

You also can contact your state Attorney General and your local Better Business Bureau to report a company. Or you can refer your complaint to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus by calling (212) 754-1320. NAD handles complaints about the truth and accuracy of national advertising. You can reach the Council of Better Business Bureaus on the web at adweb.com/adassoc17.html.

Finally, the Lanham Act gives any person (such as a competitor) who is damaged by a false designation of origin the right to sue the party making the false claim. Consult a lawyer to see if this private right of action is an appropriate course of action for you.


Based on John's response, certainly not all, or virtually all, of the processing is being done in the US for the ESS. The sewing/assembly process of the ESS, and all other Anderson style saddles, is a significant cost component of the product (otherwise why go overseas). I wonder what "reasonable basis" Tethrd has to support their Made in the USA claim when its designer says it is not. I guess this is all preliminary until someone purchases an ESS..
 

slydog

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John Eberhart has made a living promoting products made by others but I think it is the first time he has promoted anything with his name on it. It may be a good saddle but $200.00 for a China manufactured saddle when I can get an American made saddle for less, get real. Not for sale until the 18th, limited quantities, first come first served sounds to Raptorish for me.
 

Aaronpaul14

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Aaronpaul14,

I notice that logo is not on the Mantis' product page. That logo looks awfully like the one on the ESS under John's signature. There are FTC guidelines that Tethrd should be familiar with about complying with the Made in the USA claim. They can be located here: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard

THE STANDARD FOR UNQUALIFIED MADE IN USA CLAIMS
What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?
For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

What does "all or virtually all" mean?
"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content.

What substantiation is required for a Made in USA claim?
When a manufacturer or marketer makes an unqualified claim that a product is Made in USA, it should have — and rely on — a "reasonable basis" to support the claim at the time it is made. This means a manufacturer or marketer needs competent and reliable evidence to back up the claim that its product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

THE FTC AND THE CUSTOMS SERVICE
What is the U.S. Customs Service’s jurisdiction over country-of-origin claims?
The Tariff Act gives Customs and the Secretary of the Treasury the power to administer the requirement that imported goods be marked with a foreign country of origin (for example, "Made in Japan").


WHAT TO DO ABOUT VIOLATIONS
What if I suspect noncompliance with the FTC’s Made in USA standard or other country-of-origin mislabeling?
Information about possible illegal activity helps law enforcement officials target companies whose practices warrant scrutiny. If you suspect noncompliance, contact the Division of Enforcement, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, DC 20580; (202) 326-2996 or send an e-mail to MUSA@ftc.gov. If you know about import or export fraud, call Customs’ toll-free Commercial Fraud Hotline, 1-800-ITS-FAKE. Examples of fraudulent practices involving imports include removing a required foreign origin label before the product is delivered to the ultimate purchaser (with or without the improper substitution of a Made in USA label) and failing to label a product with a required country of origin.

You also can contact your state Attorney General and your local Better Business Bureau to report a company. Or you can refer your complaint to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus by calling (212) 754-1320. NAD handles complaints about the truth and accuracy of national advertising. You can reach the Council of Better Business Bureaus on the web at adweb.com/adassoc17.html.

Finally, the Lanham Act gives any person (such as a competitor) who is damaged by a false designation of origin the right to sue the party making the false claim. Consult a lawyer to see if this private right of action is an appropriate course of action for you.


Based on John's response, certainly not all, or virtually all, of the processing is being done in the US for the ESS. The sewing/assembly process of the ESS, and all other Anderson style saddles, is a significant cost component of the product (otherwise why go overseas). I wonder what "reasonable basis" Tethrd has to support their Made in the USA claim when its designer says it is not. I guess this is all preliminary until someone purchases an ESS..

Yeah not sure why they didn’t add the flag to the mantis page. They did have this in the description:

“Not only is the Mantis an excellent elevated hunting tool…it’s 100% made in America.”

Like you I’m also curious why the ESS which I assume would be much easy to build is not in the US with their existing US manufacturer connections.

Guess we will have to see what it says when the ESS goes live the 18th. Will it say Made in China or just not list it.
 

raisins

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The leg loops suck on all the sling options in my opinion. I wish someone could figure them out.

Adjustable webbing loop around each leg with rated buckle. Up the back, a piece of sewn webbing at a 90 degree angle to the leg loops. That piece of addition sewn webbing coming off leg loops at a 90 is what articulates with the bottom panel of the sling using a rated tri-glide or rated buckle. With this system, you can remove the leg loops or place them wherever you'd like and place the bottom panel wherever you'd like and then adjust the tension between the two. You would also run two pieces of 90 degree webbing if you'd like and perhaps play with the location. Also, you could attach the 90 degree webbing on something that slides instead of sewing it to the leg loops so it could be positioned for comfort.
 
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Wirrex

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Adjustable webbing loop around each leg with rated buckle. Up the back, a piece of sewn webbing at a 90 degree angle to the leg loops. That piece of addition sewn webbing coming off leg loops at a 90 is what articulates with the bottom panel of the sling using a rated tri-glide or rated buckle. With this system, you can remove the leg loops or place them wherever you'd like and place the bottom panel wherever you'd like and then adjust the tension between the two. You would also run two pieces of 90 degree webbing if you'd like and perhaps play with the location. Also, you could attach the 90 degree webbing on something that slides instead of sewing it.

Any pics?
 
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Allegheny Tom

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Adjustable webbing loop around each leg with rated buckle. Up the back, a piece of sewn webbing at a 90 degree angle to the leg loops. That piece of addition sewn webbing coming off leg loops at a 90 is what articulates with the bottom panel of the sling using a rated tri-glide or rated buckle. With this system, you can remove the leg loops or place them wherever you'd like and place the bottom panel wherever you'd like and then adjust the tension between the two. You would also run two pieces of 90 degree webbing if you'd like and perhaps play with the location. Also, you could attach the 90 degree webbing on something that slides instead of sewing it.
I read that 3 times and it confuses the crap out of me. Care to reword it?
 
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raisins

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I read that 3 times and it confuses the crap out of me. Care to reword it?

Remove the webbing leg loops from directly attaching to the sling. Instead, have additional webbing that runs along the back of the thigh that connects the sling to the loops. Make all of this adjustable and removable and weight bearing. You could also add an additional piece of webbing in front that runs at an angle to part of the sling. This would be similar in look to a rock climbing harness where there are adjustable straps in front and back to leg loops that are usually not directly attached to the belt.
 

kelly.jayp

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I like a few of the design features mainly the D-rings but feel they could be a touch smaller and still serve the purpose.
I was hoping for a adjustable amsteal bridge but after watching his video I see why they didn’t go with that over a webbing bridge because of binding on the rings which I agree is key.
The waist belt is nice but that’s not new others from this forum have already done that but I’m sure it works because without it a two panel design isn’t very user friendly.
I’ve spent a lot time in a Anderson and recon sling and I feel comfort wise they are very hard to beat but that comes with a price one is you just don’t slap it on and take off walking.
For me the best way is to wear it in is above my hips which I think he mentioned in the video.
If this design is anything like the recon you hardly know it’s on you and it can handle weight in pouches if done correctly.
Once I’m at the tree I then lower the bottom panel into position to climb and hunt.
I’m excited to try one out and see how I like it but I’ll be honest I’m concerned about one size fits all.
I’m not sure one size fits all in a two panel design is possible but the Tethrd guys know a few things about making saddles so hopefully that’s not a issue.



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I have the regular Recon and just tried a small because of my 31” waist. The small was simply not for me which surprised me. My 16 year old loves it. Sizing in these does make a difference to your point. I’m curious to see one side by side but I still sit firmly in the camp of for 150 and the exceptional quality and service from Mark how can you beat that?


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Weldabeast

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I just can't imagine the benefits of having extra metal components added to ur saddle....are the bridge rings really much different than a traditional webbing loop? I just don't see any benefit and only negative ... What am I missing?
 
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Wirrex

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I just can't imagine the benefits of having extra metal components added to ur saddle....are the bridge rings really much different than a traditional webbing loop? I just don't see any benefit and only negative ... What am I missing?

It allows the webbing to move freely so the two panels can balance out.
 

Treehopper2

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I just can't imagine the benefits of having extra metal components added to ur saddle....are the bridge rings really much different than a traditional webbing loop? I just don't see any benefit and only negative ... What am I missing?

I think the bridge rings and sewn eye on webbing come in to play with movement from the hunter as they change positions throughout the hunt.
If you had one position you sit in all day without any movement it wouldn’t be a big deal for the bridge to float along the webbing loops.
But I see where he is coming from we do move we sit for awhile we lean for awhile this changes tether angle and the metal bridge rings self center with each movement.


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Allegheny Tom

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I just can't imagine the benefits of having extra metal components added to ur saddle....are the bridge rings really much different than a traditional webbing loop? I just don't see any benefit and only negative ... What am I missing?
These are slings, not saddles. Webbing loops are fine for one panel saddles, but for self adjusting slings, it needs some sort of free floating device in order for the webbing to adjust and equalize...cant really achieve that with webbing loops.