For easier sliding, you might be able to drop a wrap. Single braids fatten out and usually grab with fewer wraps. Another option is to tie it with the three wraps on top and then spin it on the rope 180 degrees and use the green dogbone tender.
-
The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
-
We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules
Friction Hitches
- Thread starter Brocky
- Start date
The Rope Wrench is a great device to use with friction hitches that isn’t mentioned much here from searching. Kevin Bingham discovered putting a bend in the rope above the friction hitch caused friction and allowed the climber to be suspended from two points, like in the DRT moving rope system. The hitch now can easily be broken and descent is possible without adding anything, the hitch and Wrench are all that are needed, one hand to push down on the hitch, and the other as a brake.
Arborists use a stiff tether that keeps the Wrench above the hitch and keeps it slightly touching the rope so that it can rotate and bend the rope. This allows the climber to only have to work the hitch in order to descend, which makes it easy for Arborists, who do it many multiply times while working in the tree.
$150-160 for a Wrench and commercially made tether are probably the major reason, and they’re metal, for not much use among hunters. I came up with a simpler version that’s easily made with parts from the hardware store. While at the hardware store for parts for a third version, the 3” tee brackets looked like an almost ready made frame to bolt to, I had been making the frame, or body out of aluminum. Depending on what size shoulder bolts, the cost is between $12-15 to make one from the tee brackets.
The typical Wrench set up on the left, tee bracket, and the last aluminum version.
The parts needed
Arborists use a stiff tether that keeps the Wrench above the hitch and keeps it slightly touching the rope so that it can rotate and bend the rope. This allows the climber to only have to work the hitch in order to descend, which makes it easy for Arborists, who do it many multiply times while working in the tree.
$150-160 for a Wrench and commercially made tether are probably the major reason, and they’re metal, for not much use among hunters. I came up with a simpler version that’s easily made with parts from the hardware store. While at the hardware store for parts for a third version, the 3” tee brackets looked like an almost ready made frame to bolt to, I had been making the frame, or body out of aluminum. Depending on what size shoulder bolts, the cost is between $12-15 to make one from the tee brackets.
The typical Wrench set up on the left, tee bracket, and the last aluminum version.
The parts needed
^^^ Sumthin' like that could come in really handy for guys that use their rappel rope as a tether.
I've been following this thread but just getting around to trying some new hitches. Is this the proper structure for the sticht? Mostly is that right on the backside?
This that actually grabs pretty darn good, both cords are the same size but it's still best to use cord that's about 75% of the mainline right?
Also as long as the ring isn't sharp anddoesn't collapse/ break any material is fine for that?
Thanks, sorry I'm pretty late to the party on this one I know
It looks tied correctly but the washer is what concerns me. It looks it could pull straight through that washer. This is an issue I’ve had on several rope and ring/washer combinations with this hitch specifically before and it can be dangerous. If it pulls through you could slide to the ground. Please put some significant weight on it from the ground before climbing on it to ensure it doesn’t have that tendency.
Also I would not use the same size mainline and hitch chord until it could be completely vetted in many different scenarios. When you change the chord diameter you are changing the friction in the hitch, in this case it typically reduces the friction. You want it to slide but arguably more important is you want it to grab and hold your weight. If you reduce the friction too much, it may hold you statically and slide easy but as soon as you dynamically bump your weight on it it could be enough to break open the friction holding you and you might not be able to get it to stop unless you’re actively manning the rope. This could result in you falling to the end of your tether or worse your climbing rope. I don’t say this to scare you or anyone else, but I think there can be quite a bit of nuance to rope climbing that isn’t easily conveyed in text. Rope climbing can be safe and fun but there are a lots of little things to be aware of to mitigate risk.
Last edited:
Thanks! To prevent a pull through I should use a tender/ washer that is a tight fit for 4 pieces of accessory cord right? Something that's probably in the 5xD range? I plan on trying this on my tether 8mm latitude, either with the supplied loop or 6mm Samson from EWO. I may try it on my 9mm canyon elite eventually, probably 6 or 7mm cord there.
I asked about tender material, and now sizing , because I may make my own. I have the abilities, metal , plastic composite whatever. Part to pick materials and part so I can make the hole just how I want it.
I should have added, that's just for practice with stuff I had laying around. It's 2 pieces of 1/8 cord and that hole is 15/32 so no where near scale. I do truly appreciate your insights!
Edit: yes I can pretty easily pull that through, and push it back in again. Thanks for looking out!
Last edited:
I was mistaken. I have 7 and 8 mm cord , sterling not Samson. I already ordered 5.5 and 6mm cord to use on the 8mm, should have it Saturday.
Not ideal, I know, but I've got 7mm cord on the 8mm vaporline to play with now. It holds good if I sit normally or even if I hop like a mini fall it catches me fine. But if I weight the saddle/ line and break the hitch like I'm making a small adjustment it's a slow ride down. If I do it fast on the hitch, fast off herky jerky instead of smooth it catches good.
- what are the causes here? I'm planning on going to go to the smaller cord regardless. Is it the 7 on 8mm? Just to close?
- I tied it pretty tight but it seems to stretch out good, is too tight and issue?
- add wrap(s) up top? I am exactly like my previous pic. Actually I put an over hand behind the mainline. I'll add a picture
Also does carabiner shape matter? I'm using kind of flat black diamond D. I have some round ones that are more oval.
That's sort of mid expanded. If I advance it, it gets more compact and if I sat on it it'll expand some more.
This is still ground testing. I will fix my frayed ends and use a back up when / if I get off the ground with it. Works great other than the siding thing.
Not ideal, I know, but I've got 7mm cord on the 8mm vaporline to play with now. It holds good if I sit normally or even if I hop like a mini fall it catches me fine. But if I weight the saddle/ line and break the hitch like I'm making a small adjustment it's a slow ride down. If I do it fast on the hitch, fast off herky jerky instead of smooth it catches good.
- what are the causes here? I'm planning on going to go to the smaller cord regardless. Is it the 7 on 8mm? Just to close?
- I tied it pretty tight but it seems to stretch out good, is too tight and issue?
- add wrap(s) up top? I am exactly like my previous pic. Actually I put an over hand behind the mainline. I'll add a picture
Also does carabiner shape matter? I'm using kind of flat black diamond D. I have some round ones that are more oval.
That's sort of mid expanded. If I advance it, it gets more compact and if I sat on it it'll expand some more.
This is still ground testing. I will fix my frayed ends and use a back up when / if I get off the ground with it. Works great other than the siding thing.
I think I would try an additional wrap with that line combo first. Havent messed with 7 on 8 though so that may not be the right solution. 6 on 8 is what I have always worked with and it has always grabbed well with the hitches I have tried other than with a happy hands that was dressed too tight. It would slip like you are talking about. Your hitch doesnt look too tight to me but I am not one of the hitch experts.
Last edited:
@Horn, the wide ring should make it hand tend easily due to the separation of the wraps and twist in back, being adjustable makes cord choice not as specific, as long as it grabs reliably.
Tending can be improved by raising the twist off the rope, short piece of tubing, bushings, or my go to now is stick the end of the cord under it, if not using spliced or sewn eyes.
The hitch on last picture probably needs another wrap to grab better. It will work better if the stopper is tied on top of the twist. The ring should also be bigger, round cross section is best.
The ring can also be eliminated by using the cord it self to form a “ring”. A piece of cover helps to keep the round shape and allows the rope to bend more.
Found out one tee bracket isn’t enough.
Tending can be improved by raising the twist off the rope, short piece of tubing, bushings, or my go to now is stick the end of the cord under it, if not using spliced or sewn eyes.
The hitch on last picture probably needs another wrap to grab better. It will work better if the stopper is tied on top of the twist. The ring should also be bigger, round cross section is best.
The ring can also be eliminated by using the cord it self to form a “ring”. A piece of cover helps to keep the round shape and allows the rope to bend more.
Found out one tee bracket isn’t enough.
I had an issue today, with the hitch still exactly as it is in my picture. Only knee high off the ground so no injury/damage or anything, just hopped down when it gave out.
The hitch stayed at height on my tether. Biner stayed on my bridge. I would have, at best, got stuck on a bigger stopper knot had I been higher but I only had a double overhand and I think it went through the biner. Lesson one for the day. Bigger stopper or smaller opening.
The ring was in the place, wraps looked fine. The overhand on the hitch cord was in front of the main line after it let go.
Any thoughts on what I did wrong? I did get smaller hitch cord today, larger rings as suggested already too.
Pretty sure --- I --- did something wrong. Not an indictment on the hitch. Good reminder why you test at ground level, thoroughly.
So my stopper will go through that biner, shouldn't matter though. It's on the "back" anyway. The stopper does stop at the hitch. I'll keep messing with it. I just put the tag end back through the loop by the binder to fix it. Haven't changed anything else
Ok. I think I got it figured out. I think I got into a configuration like this :
That led to this due to shifting/ swinging talking :
I had (carelessly i have learned) kinda coiled my extra tether up and stuck it in in my biner to keep it out of the way. Not sure if I can figure out why the stopper didn't catch or not but this scenario seems like a likely mode of failure today
Ok. I think I got it figured out. I think I got into a configuration like this :
That led to this due to shifting/ swinging talking :
I had (carelessly i have learned) kinda coiled my extra tether up and stuck it in in my biner to keep it out of the way. Not sure if I can figure out why the stopper didn't catch or not but this scenario seems like a likely mode of failure today
Last edited:
I personally didn’t find much benefit from tying off my hitches with that double overhand in that fashion. More problems than solutions for me. I prefer to just make a loop and be done with it. I don’t think that the overhand tends the hitch that well from my experience. To each their own. How’s it working for your?
Nothing in those pictures is tied right!
Do not climb with that!
Lemme think of how to word this...
Ok, take a look at your bottom picture, you mainline should not be going through your carabiner.
The carabiner should be hooked into the hitch
If you zoom in on mine you will see it's actually an Oval VT, very similar to the Stitcht.
The hitch in post 327 is wrong as well...
The hitch in post 327 is wrong as well...
Ok, take a look at how this is wrong....
See the loop starting to form in your tether? That can possibly and very probably will just keep getting longer and longer 'till you run out of mainline. The tag end will just keep getting gobbled up until...
Now if you look at that picture again, unhook the carabiner from where it's at and pull all the tag end out of that small loop in the hitch,, then you could hook your carabiner through there and you'd be in business.
I hope that makes sense?
See the loop starting to form in your tether? That can possibly and very probably will just keep getting longer and longer 'till you run out of mainline. The tag end will just keep getting gobbled up until...
Now if you look at that picture again, unhook the carabiner from where it's at and pull all the tag end out of that small loop in the hitch,, then you could hook your carabiner through there and you'd be in business.
I hope that makes sense?
Tying the stopper that way pulls through as you found out and as gcr0003 stated it doesn’t help with the tending. This is the way I do it the ends go back through the ring the the stopper is tied on top of the twist.
This is 7mm on 8mm with a 1” ring.
This is 7mm on 8mm with a 1” ring.