Help me pick a different arrow

[heretic]

Why does one add an insert, and use a lighter head? I see this combo all of the time. For instance someone will add a 100gr insert and use a 125gr head…why not use a standard insert and a 200 gr head? If y’all are buying into the high FOC hype, y’all are probably using single bevels, and there are plenty of 200gr single bevels on the market. I’m not being facetious, I’m asking an honest question. I’ve never understood why one would I want a heavy insert when they could get close to equal weight without it. Also wouldn’t your FOC be higher if all of your weight was on the tip? A 100-200 grain insert is 3” long so that’s moving weight back towards center.


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Structural integrity of your system can come into play. I use 200 gr broadheads in my arrow builds but I would never put them on an 11gr aluminum insert. At hard impact that insert is likely to fail, robbing your broadhead of precious momentum. When planning arrow builds I take into account the added weight of a stronger (steel/titanium) insert as part of my targeted point weight.

 

[phatkaw]

^^^ Yep.
I shoot 100 & 125gr points and have been since I was a kid.
I have no desire to buy any big heavy broadheads...

 

[shmelton]

Structural integrity of your system can come into play. I use 200 gr broadheads in my arrow builds but I would never put them on an 11gr aluminum insert. At hard impact that insert is likely to fail, robbing your broadhead of precious momentum. When planning arrow builds I take into account the added weight of a stronger (steel/titanium) insert as part of my targeted point weight.

Ok, makes sense. I never thought about it that way. Thanks!


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[PEEJAY]

Why does one add an insert, and use a lighter head? I see this combo all of the time. For instance someone will add a 100gr insert and use a 125gr head…why not use a standard insert and a 200 gr head? If y’all are buying into the high FOC hype, y’all are probably using single bevels, and there are plenty of 200gr single bevels on the market. I’m not being facetious, I’m asking an honest question. I’ve never understood why one would I want a heavy insert when they could get close to equal weight without it. Also wouldn’t your FOC be higher if all of your weight was on the tip? A 100-200 grain insert is 3” long so that’s moving weight back towards center.


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One more point. Sometimes 200 grain broadheads aren't readily available. If your out of state and need more you're prolly screwed. But mostly for strength. A steel footer is maybe an inch or 1.5 in but it really beefs it up.
Going a little lighter in the back makes a much bigger difference than a little heavier up front for FOC. Ashby has a cool little demonstration on that. That's why a lot of guys use feathers and regular nocks.

 

[raisins]

Gold tip hunter xt with 12 grain insert and 125 grain head

 

[Jimdude]

Why does one add an insert, and use a lighter head? I see this combo all of the time. For instance someone will add a 100gr insert and use a 125gr head…why not use a standard insert and a 200 gr head? If y’all are buying into the high FOC hype, y’all are probably using single bevels, and there are plenty of 200gr single bevels on the market. I’m not being facetious, I’m asking an honest question. I’ve never understood why one would I want a heavy insert when they could get close to equal weight without it. Also wouldn’t your FOC be higher if all of your weight was on the tip? A 100-200 grain insert is 3” long so that’s moving weight back towards center.
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Some people prefer the long stainless steel inserts with a lighter head because the insert being longer and steel makes for factor #1 structural integrity. Short aluminum inserts break the arrow more easily and bend more easily.

 

[kyler1945]

For what it’s worth I shoot 100gr inserts and 125gr heads. At 290fps. What I’ve found is if the arrows gonna break, it’s gonna break. Inserts being stainless doesn’t help. They just break behind the insert.

I don’t think a footer would help either.

It’s just too much energy for a carbon shaft to handle sometime.

I think broadhead integrity is something you can definitely pay attention to with any bow. But if you’re shooting a 500gr arrow over 250fps, arrow integrity may just not be something to worry about. I’ve cut shoulder bone in half and had arrow stay intact, and I’ve snapped arrows that just hit one rib on both sides.

 

[Crawdaddy4]

@Dmathews87
Gold Tips have their internal weight system, that makes tuning easy and getting the highest FOC easier too.
Keep in mind that a shorter and stiffer arrow will penetrate better.

For my compound I use Gold Tip Hunter XT 300 spine, at 27" with a 100 gr. brass insert, 150 gr. field tip and 3" feathers. This arrow setup has a TAW of 525 with a 22% FOC. My compound is an Elite Ritual 30, at 57# at 29" DL. I like single bevel Grizzly and Steel Force broadheads, but I also use Magnus BuzzCut and Black Hornet broadheads too. I always sharpen any broadhead, out of the package! Sometimes it's just a matter of spending a little time on a board mounted leather strop, to get that mirrored razor edge.
View attachment 90301

I've been using a heavy arrow with a high FOC for 3 years and will never go back to any thing lighter, for speed or flat trajectory. I don't take a shot at anything without using a laser rangefinder, so speed and flat trajectory doesn't mean anything for me. I know the yardage, set my pin and take the shot. *** The best thing about this type of setup is pass thru shots and watching the deer fall within sight!!!

For my ILF recurve, I use Gold Tip Tradtional 500 spine, at 29" with a 250 gr. field tip and 4" feathers. This arrow setup has a TAW of 540 and a 23.3% FOC. My Hoyt Satori 19" riser has Uukha Gobi short limbs, at 45#, which makes for a 60" bow length. I use the same broadheads for this bow setup, as I do for my compound.
View attachment 90300

This recurve setup makes me want to go out and buy one!!!

 

[colin.704]

Ive been shooting FMJs (which im sure plenty of you will dump on) but ive never had any issues...other than they just get too expensive to shoot so im looking at other options that are most cost effective and still allow me to go a bit heavier. I like TAW to be around 450gr and shoot 60lbs at 27.5in. What you guys like? Im eyeing some black eagle and maybe even gold tips.

victory tko VAPS or RIPS. vaps are 4mm, rips are 5mm....very strong arrows but they aren't that cheap

 

[Pavehawk01]

Sirius Apollo 300 is my new arrow. Never had an issue with the FMJ, but I’m just trying the high FOC route this year to see what the fuss is about.

 

[Crawdaddy4]

Structural integrity of your system can come into play. I use 200 gr broadheads in my arrow builds but I would never put them on an 11gr aluminum insert. At hard impact that insert is likely to fail, robbing your broadhead of precious momentum. When planning arrow builds I take into account the added weight of a stronger (steel/titanium) insert as part of my targeted point weight.

This is exactly why I shoot 150gr inserts and 200gr broadheads. When I was bareshaft tuning my arrows, I learned my bow really liked a 250
spine arrow with 350 grains up front. Worked out well for me because there are a lot of 200gr broadheads available now with customizeable inserts to get that weight.

 

[slonstdy]

I've been shooting Gold Tip XT250, HunterPro 300 and the plain vanilla Hunter 300 arrows for the last 3 years. I buy bare shafts and build them out to my liking. They all fly true, are nearly indestructable, and are easy on the wallet. I stayed with standard diameter arrows so all of the components are interchangeable.
Going to drop down to a .204 and see what all the hype is about, most likely a Victory or Easton or Black Eagle or GT...

 

[DroptineKrazy]

For what it’s worth I shoot 100gr inserts and 125gr heads. At 290fps. What I’ve found is if the arrows gonna break, it’s gonna break. Inserts being stainless doesn’t help. They just break behind the insert.

I don’t think a footer would help either.

It’s just too much energy for a carbon shaft to handle sometime.

I think broadhead integrity is something you can definitely pay attention to with any bow. But if you’re shooting a 500gr arrow over 250fps, arrow integrity may just not be something to worry about. I’ve cut shoulder bone in half and had arrow stay intact, and I’ve snapped arrows that just hit one rib on both sides.

Lusk Archery Adventures has shot hundreds of arrows into cement blocks testing different broadheads and I don't think I have ever seen one break.

 

[Jimdude]

Lusk Archery Adventures has shot hundreds of arrows into cement blocks testing different broadheads and I don't think I have ever seen one break.

If I paid as much for 3 arrows as I did for my bow… they BETTER NOT BREAK! Would be afraid to shoot a bishop arrow at a deer in fear of not finding it.

 

[kyler1945]

Lusk Archery Adventures has shot hundreds of arrows into cement blocks testing different broadheads and I don't think I have ever seen one break.

Have any of them penetrated the concrete block, and stayed in it, and not broken?

Have any of them penetrated one side of the concrete block, broke through the other side, but not passed through, and not broken?


This is really academic at this point, all I meant was that across the 40+ deer I’ve shot with a bow, and the dozens I’ve been a witness to, whether or not I had an aluminum insert or a stainless insert didn’t have a material impact on the handful of times the arrow broke.

 

[BowhunterXC]

This recurve setup makes me want to go out and buy one!!!

Do it!!! I've been shooting recurves and longbows for several years and with the string walking method, it gives me the accuracy that takes months of practice and hundreds of arrows to attain with gap and/or instinctive shooting methods.
Watching the video called "The Push - A Traditional Archery Film", on YouTube opened my eyes to better accuracy, with less time than conventional methods. The string walking method is explained close to the 1 hour mark of the video....it's a 2 hour video, but very educational.

 

[DroptineKrazy]

Have any of them penetrated the concrete block, and stayed in it, and not broken?

Have any of them penetrated one side of the concrete block, broke through the other side, but not passed through, and not broken?


This is really academic at this point, all I meant was that across the 40+ deer I’ve shot with a bow, and the dozens I’ve been a witness to, whether or not I had an aluminum insert or a stainless insert didn’t have a material impact on the handful of times the arrow broke.

Actually several of them have penetrated the block and stayed in it without breaking the arrow. I get what your saying though. The only times I've ever broken an arrow on a whitetail is when it wasn't a pass through and it got snapped off while the deer ran or if the animal lands on it when it drops.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

Ive been shooting FMJs (which im sure plenty of you will dump on) but ive never had any issues...other than they just get too expensive to shoot so im looking at other options that are most cost effective and still allow me to go a bit heavier. I like TAW to be around 450gr and shoot 60lbs at 27.5in. What you guys like? Im eyeing some black eagle and maybe even gold tips.

I shoot a similar setup (58#, shaft length 26”) but my TAW is around 380 with 100gr broadheads. I’ve messed with 125gr broadheads this year and TAW around 405. Depending on component selection, I don’t think bumping to 450 would be THAT hard for the arrows I use. I like the Easton 6.5mm Bowhunter in 400 spine (8.4gpi I think) which used to be the Beman ICS Bowhunter. Really consistent, simple, classic carbon arrows, and an expensive bare shaft is $8 from what I’ve found. out of 24 bought over 3 seasons, I haven’t had one that I can remember flying differently than the other 23.

 

[Iron_llama]

Why does one add an insert, and use a lighter head? I see this combo all of the time. For instance someone will add a 100gr insert and use a 125gr head…why not use a standard insert and a 200 gr head? If y’all are buying into the high FOC hype, y’all are probably using single bevels, and there are plenty of 200gr single bevels on the market. I’m not being facetious, I’m asking an honest question. I’ve never understood why one would I want a heavy insert when they could get close to equal weight without it. Also wouldn’t your FOC be higher if all of your weight was on the tip? A 100-200 grain insert is 3” long so that’s moving weight back towards center.


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I'm actually experimenting with this setup because I wasn't sure what approach to take. I hurt my hand earlier this summer and haven't had a chance to paper-tune anything, but I've got 185gr Grizzlies, 200gr Maasais, and 300gr SteelForce broadheads with appropriate components to get me to 375gr up front. We'll see what I actually take into the woods, and how I balance broadhead vs insert weight.

 

[sjtinnelly]

I was shooting hunter XTs 340 spine with 12gr insert and 100gr broad head but was only getting 7-8% foc. I just ordered some gold tip airstrikes with a 300 spine to try out some 125gr magnus stingers. Apparently they come with ballistic collars too. This new set up shout get me around 12% foc I think