Latitude SS vs Tethrd One?

[Crawdaddy4]

When I tie mine off I try to keep the amsteel as close to perpendicular as possible. Then in my first crossover I pull the amsteel as tight as I can make it before locking it off the first time. Then do second lock. Yeah if you aren't comfortable send them back no point of climbing on gear you don't trust. Don't need that in the back of your head.

Yeah. I'll probably be selling them soon or figuring out something else to do with them, as MPW doesn't take back climbing sticks once they've been used. And I used them enough over the past couple of days that they are obviously used.

* The following items must be returned unopened and unused within 30 days of purchase (unless found defective): CDs, Videos, Computer Software, Electronics, Cameras, e-Collars, Tents, Ice Houses, Blinds, Climbing Sticks and Tree Stands.

 

[raisins]

I appreciate the feedback and no offense taken. I tried adjusting how much "sag" was in my line to reposition the stick in relation to where the Amsteel surrounds the tree. It didn't make a difference in the amount of flexion. Again, some may be comfortable with this, but I wasn't.

I find my One sticks work best if I go ahead and put the rope at almost a 45 degree from horizontal and really pull hard on the rope before setting. Then they hardly sag or make a noise. But I might be asking for a kickout.....will have to play around more....I need them around waist height to work with my moveable aider and when putting the amsteel horizontal it is a guessing game regarding how much they'll slide down the tree.

 

[bigmike23]

I find my One sticks work best if I go ahead and put the rope at almost a 45 degree from horizontal and really pull hard on the rope before setting. Then they hardly sag or make a noise. But I might be asking for a kickout.....will have to play around more....I need them around waist height to work with my moveable aider and when putting the amsteel horizontal it is a guessing game regarding how much they'll slide down the tree.

As in the top of the stick is at waist height? Every one stick I set I line up the top step with my eye level then pull down. Gets 6ft a stick

 

[raisins]

As in the top of the stick is at waist height? Every one stick I set I line up the top step with my eye level then pull down. Gets 6ft a stick

Nah, if I put the bottom step of the stick right on top of my belt line, then my 24" inch step reach and my aider that hangs 20" below the bottom step give me the right distance. I don't mind reaching to step into the aider, but once in the aider, I want it a nice short step up to solid "ground"....or stick.

 

[Chandler96]

The material only matters to me inasmuch as its reaction to applied force. Meaning, I don't care that it is plastic. If it was aluminum and moved this much, I'd still be uncomfortable standing on it.

no i get it. im sure its strong i just dont want a plastic feeling stick. plastic on trees sounds terrible

 

[Plebe]

i was going to comment on how plastic they are but didnt want to get the backlash from the fans. the tethrd ones for people who use multiple sticks are probably the best imo

Ironically, typical epoxy-based carbon fiber reinforced plastics exhibit virtually no plasticity, (lol, I read that on Wiki)

Anyway, both Carbon Fiber laminates (Timber Ninja) and Injection Molded Carbon Fiber (Latitude) are Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastics.

But how “plastic“ are they? I don’t know specifically…but…

I’ve read a research study showing Carbon Fiber laminates reach max tensile strength around 35% resin. Tensile strength decreased both with more and less resin in the mix. CF laminate is what everyone seems to be calling “Carbon Fiber.”

A separate study reports that injection molded CF generally achieved best performance as a balance of tensile strength, impact resistance, and elastic modulus around 30% fiber content. Length of fibers and choice of matrix (resin) and any nano-fillers are factors effecting that.

So, I’d assume the Latitude sticks are probably somewhere around 30% actual Carbon Fiber, and the Timber Ninja posts probably around 65%. None are 100% carbon fiber and adding “plastic” is actually critical to maximizing performance.

Is being “plastic” necessarily a bad thing?

Stacked outdoors has been selling fiber reinforced polymer sticks for awhile, and I’ve not heard of any issues.

Ultimately the design and manufacturing process are probably as important as the material.

 

[Chandler96]

Ironically, typical epoxy-based carbon fiber reinforced plastics exhibit virtually no plasticity, (lol, I read that on Wiki)

Anyway, both Carbon Fiber laminates (Timber Ninja) and Injection Molded Carbon Fiber (Latitude) are Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastics.

But how “plastic“ are they? I don’t know specifically…but…

I’ve read a research study showing Carbon Fiber laminates reach max tensile strength around 35% resin. Tensile strength decreased both with more and less resin in the mix. CF laminate is what everyone seems to be calling “Carbon Fiber.”

A separate study reports that injection molded CF generally achieved best performance as a balance of tensile strength, impact resistance, and elastic modulus around 30% fiber content. Length of fibers and choice of matrix (resin) and any nano-fillers are factors effecting that.

So, I’d assume the Latitude sticks are probably somewhere around 30% actual Carbon Fiber, and the Timber Ninja posts probably around 65%. None are 100% carbon fiber and adding “plastic” is actually critical to maximizing performance.

Is being “plastic” necessarily a bad thing?

Stacked outdoors has been selling fiber reinforced polymer sticks for awhile, and I’ve not heard of any issues.

Ultimately the design and manufacturing process are probably as important as the material.

im not saying they wont hold up...im just saying i dont like the feel of them and the sound they make. the great thing about saddle hunting is that there is something made for everyone and stuff that not everyone is going to like

 

[Plebe]

im not saying they wont hold up...im just saying i dont like the feel of them and the sound they make. the great thing about saddle hunting is that there is something made for everyone and stuff that not everyone is going to like

I mean, it’s evident there’s more to it than you don’t like the feel of them. That’s fine, I think there are some good arguments to be made for either stick.

Feel and noise aren’t the strongest for the ONEs, imo. There’s some pretty noisy ONE sticks caught on camera, and I can’t imagine a cold stick feeling better than a not cold stick…but, stealth stripped, sticks of similar weight probably feel about the same in a blind test.

I think durability is absolutely something the Latitude sticks have to prove. ONE sticks probably still need to pass that test yet as well.

I was really just commenting on your remark about “how plastic they are”. A lot of folks keep saying they’re plastic, not carbon fiber. That doesn’t really do due diligence on a technical level.

Kind of like AmSteel…it’s not really steel is it, lol.

 

[Chandler96]

I mean, it’s evident there’s more to it than you don’t like the feel of them. That’s fine, I think there are some good arguments to be made for either stick.

Feel and noise aren’t the strongest for the ONEs, imo. There’s some pretty noisy ONE sticks caught on camera, and I can’t imagine a cold stick feeling better than a not cold stick…but, stealth stripped, sticks of similar weight probably feel about the same in a blind test.

I think durability is absolutely something the Latitude sticks have to prove. ONE sticks probably still need to pass that test yet as well.

I was really just commenting on your remark about “how plastic they are”. A lot of folks keep saying they’re plastic, not carbon fiber. That doesn’t really do due diligence on a technical level.

Kind of like AmSteel…it’s not really steel is it, lol.

I never said they were plastic. I said they feel like plastic. And it’s literally the only reason I don’t like them. The feel and the sound they make.

 

[Plebe]

I never said they were plastic. I said they feel like plastic. And it’s literally the only reason I don’t like them. The feel and the sound they make.

You said:

i was going to comment on how plastic they are but didnt want to get the backlash from the fans. the tethrd ones for people who use multiple sticks are probably the best imo

Therefore I commented on how plastic they might be.

I then commented with my opinion of sound and feeling of the two sticks being discussed.

I agree, there’s something for everyone…and add, everyone’s still searching for something. Well, most everyone.

 

[Chandler96]

You said:



Therefore I commented on how plastic they might be.

I then commented with my opinion of sound and feeling of the two sticks being discussed.

I agree, there’s something for everyone…and add, everyone’s still searching for something. Well, most everyone.

Wow I feel like I’m having a discussion with a woman. Correctly pointing out what I said lol. I meant how plastic they feel and the sound they make are trash.

 

[Rutman]

I saw them at the saddle expo. They definitely felt like plastic sticks. I wouldn’t have a set. No way they’ll last as long as other sticks.


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[jvarn81]

I am hunting with mine Thursday evening, and I will be paying special attention to this flexing.

 

[phorizt]

I hope to see the reviews from everyone after using them for a season to see about overall durability and if anyone has any types of failures. My main concern would be less about the flex(that's not always a bad thing in materials as long as they return to shape and don't warp) or the strength of the steps and more about the strength of those little tabs holding the sticks to the tree. Every time we shoot our bows they flex but we don't worry about them bc of it. I haven't seen them in person but the pics make the attachment tabs look not very robust and those will be supporting a lot of weight.

Looking at those Stacked Outdoors sticks, they appear to be much more robust and are 2x the weight yet still only rated to 300 pounds.

 

[Mopar1169]

I hope to see the reviews from everyone after using them for a season to see about overall durability and if anyone has any types of failures. My main concern would be less about the flex(that's not always a bad thing in materials as long as they return to shape and don't warp) or the strength of the steps and more about the strength of those little tabs holding the sticks to the tree. Every time we shoot our bows they flex but we don't worry about them bc of it. I haven't seen them in person but the pics make the attachment tabs look not very robust and those will be supporting a lot of weight.

Looking at those Stacked Outdoors sticks, they appear to be much more robust and are 2x the weight yet still only rated to 300 pounds.

There really shouldn't be that much force on tabs if tied off correctly, force is transferred into stick body. Just like on a button reason they get away with using a 1/4 bolt force pulling in both directions equally so cancels it out.

 

[Crawdaddy4]

I hope to see the reviews from everyone after using them for a season to see about overall durability and if anyone has any types of failures. My main concern would be less about the flex(that's not always a bad thing in materials as long as they return to shape and don't warp) or the strength of the steps and more about the strength of those little tabs holding the sticks to the tree. Every time we shoot our bows they flex but we don't worry about them bc of it. I haven't seen them in person but the pics make the attachment tabs look not very robust and those will be supporting a lot of weight.

Looking at those Stacked Outdoors sticks, they appear to be much more robust and are 2x the weight yet still only rated to 300 pounds.

I agree that the material flexing itself isn’t necessarily an indicator that there is a lack of structural integrity. There are lots of engineered materials designed to move, but return to their original shape (bows, golf clubs, fasteners, etc). However, the top step completely disengages the tree when I apply force and is exacerbated when I shift weight. Do I only want 2 or 3 points of contact from my climbing stick? Personally, I’d prefer to maintain full contact with all standoffs and the spine not twisting that much. Part of it comes down to personal confidence and I want gear I’m confident in. I don’t feel confident in these sticks so I’m not going to use them. They may be perfect for someone else. YMMV

There are several people using these sticks. I hope they hold up very well and last a long time. I’d hate for their to be a design flaw on something people are trusting their life to.

 

[Plebe]

Wow I feel like I’m having a discussion with a woman. Correctly pointing out what I said lol. I meant how plastic they feel and the sound they make are trash.

I don’t know that it’s a man or woman thing….but….my wife is 9/10 on challenge flags (she is pretty darn smart). But every so often a zebra has spots; I’m the one with a knack for driving directions, lol.

I haven’t tried either stick, so I can’t provide a first hand review. But I’d much rather plastic noise than metal noise of the same amplitude. I think the goal is to not make noise, so I’d focus on that with either stick.

I still don’t know how plastic feels different other than warmer in the cold. I guess that’s just an individual perception.

If we could rule out durability, I think the little details that make one or the other great headline the discussion. But it’s hard to live in that vacuum, even though talking on that topic is mostly speculation.

 

[Chandler96]

I don’t know that it’s a man or woman thing….but….my wife is 9/10 on challenge flags (she is pretty darn smart). But every so often a zebra has spots; I’m the one with a knack for driving directions, lol.

I haven’t tried either stick, so I can’t provide a first hand review. But I’d much rather plastic noise than metal noise of the same amplitude. I think the goal is to not make noise, so I’d focus on that with either stick.

I still don’t know how plastic feels different other than warmer in the cold. I guess that’s just an individual perception.

If we could rule out durability, I think the little details that make one or the other great headline the discussion. But it’s hard to live in that vacuum, even though talking on that topic is mostly speculation.

You don't know how plastic feels different than aluminum or titanium or even majority carbon fiber? As soon as I touched it, I could feel the plastic feel. As soon as I put it on the tree, I could hear the sound I don't like. Not that I like metal banging together though. I am sure they're durable I haven't tested their durability. I put them in the tree and climbed with four or them one time and wasn't a fan.

 

[raisins]

I don’t know that it’s a man or woman thing….but….my wife is 9/10 on challenge flags (she is pretty darn smart). But every so often a zebra has spots; I’m the one with a knack for driving directions, lol.

I haven’t tried either stick, so I can’t provide a first hand review. But I’d much rather plastic noise than metal noise of the same amplitude. I think the goal is to not make noise, so I’d focus on that with either stick.

I still don’t know how plastic feels different other than warmer in the cold. I guess that’s just an individual perception.

If we could rule out durability, I think the little details that make one or the other great headline the discussion. But it’s hard to live in that vacuum, even though talking on that topic is mostly speculation.

What’s challenge flags? Trying to figure out if you’re talking about football flags or something else.

 

[Plebe]

What’s challenge flags? Trying to figure out if you’re talking about football flags or something else.

Yep. Upon further review...she's right.