Ropeman Safety

[mattsteg]

Maybe, but I read somewhere in a review or something that they tend to snag the rope fibers and eventually damage the rope. My 1's grip the rope plenty reliably for me. I've never had it threaten to let the rope slip through. Pros and Cons to each, I suppose.

Yeah they'll wear the sheath more, but even in-spec ropeman1 has been observed to sever rope sheathes (and at slightky higher loads complete ropes)as low as 4kn. Toothed ascenders still strip sheaths, but at a bit higher load.

If there's a grip difference it would be on a gradually loaded taught rope.

I don't find ascenders especially useful except for ascending rope (or hanging a deer i guess). also I'd probably never run a rope that a ropeman1 would be in spec for anyway.

 

[WannaBMonkey]

That's what I love about this Forum. Always something to learn. Always folks willing to share knowledge and opinions. There's a wealth of information either already here somewhere or just a question away. Time for zzzzzzzz, so that concludes my learning for today! Goodnight all and thanks for the conversation.

 

[hickstick]

Is this a single eye prussic? If so where did you find it? I’m not familiar with names and terminology but this looks great for keeping bulk off the biner.


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its called a Split Tail or a Single eye Split Tail and you can get them from wesspur and a bunch of other places.

 

[Apex7]

I always thought the only difference between the Ropeman 1 and 2 was the size of rope it's compatible with and that the 2 has smaller, pointier, more numerous teeth. Why do you say the 2 is more robust? Have I missed something?

I won't use a Ropeman 2 on my Samson Predator rope. The teeth are too aggressive for my rope. The Ropeman 1 is made to work with the size of rope I use.

 

[WannaBMonkey]

I won't use a Ropeman 2 on my Samson Predator rope. The teeth are too aggressive for my rope. The Ropeman 1 is made to work with the size of rope I use.

That's exactly the way I look at it. My RM1 does no damage and gives all the grip needed on my Predator rope as well

 

[Still Kicking]

There is a bit of a learning curve to keep the teeth from pulling. You have to back off some tension before you disengage the teeth. Kinda like working a clutch once you get the feel it becomes second nature. It's not really much hassle to me, but different strokes for different folks to me it's worth the peace of mind I guess.

I really like the ropeman 2 and after using it a bit it does become natural. It works better on a static rope as far as snagging goes.

 

[dclouser0]

Seen a lot of mentions about a prusik at the end of the tether here. I'd just like to point out that your prusik should go above the rope man. I put mine up to lean hight. Reason being is the failure usually isn't the mechanism, it's the force from a fall desheathing the rope. The prusik above can catch you if the rope or the fall restraint (ropeman, Kong, ct, etc) fails. I have three points of failure for my tether and two for my bridge. Might be crazy redundant but I'm a med student and graduating this spring and the stories I've heard about students getting permanently injured just before graduating scared the hell outta me. Can really do much with an incomplete medical degree thays going to pay for all those loans. Albeit, an accident that generates that much force from a saddle is really unlikely, I just feel I can never be too safe.

 

[kyler1945]

Seen a lot of mentions about a prusik at the end of the tether here. I'd just like to point out that your prusik should go above the rope man. I put mine up to lean hight. Reason being is the failure usually isn't the mechanism, it's the force from a fall desheathing the rope. The prusik above can catch you if the rope or the fall restraint (ropeman, Kong, ct, etc) fails. I have three points of failure for my tether and two for my bridge. Might be crazy redundant but I'm a med student and graduating this spring and the stories I've heard about students getting permanently injured just before graduating scared the hell outta me. Can really do much with an incomplete medical degree thays going to pay for all those loans. Albeit, an accident that generates that much force from a saddle is really unlikely, I just feel I can never be too safe.

with that type of risk assessment, wouldn't it make more sense to hunt from the ground? Seems like the logical conclusion to that thought process...

 

[WannaBMonkey]

with that type of risk assessment, wouldn't it make more sense to hunt from the ground? Seems like the logical conclusion to that thought process...

I really don't think you should criticize someone for looking out for their own safety regardless of how excessive you may think it is. Whatever gives you the peace of mind to concentrate on making the shot without worrying about plummetting to the ground in the process is what you should do. Personally, I am only a couple redundancies short of that myself. And I can be single minded about the shot because of the redundancy.

 

[kyler1945]

I really don't think you should criticize someone for looking out for their own safety regardless of how excessive you may think it is. Whatever gives you the peace of mind to concentrate on making the shot without worrying about plummetting to the ground in the process is what you should do. Personally, I am only a couple redundancies short of that myself. And I can be single minded about the shot because of the redundancy.

i don’t think it’s excessive. I think it’s not enough. That’s the point of the post. And it’s not a criticism. It’s a question, pointing at the math.

I’ve got a fairly strong track record of pressing for conservatism and critical thinking on safety around here big fella. Easy now…

 

[WannaBMonkey]

i don’t think it’s excessive. I think it’s not enough. That’s the point of the post. And it’s not a criticism. It’s a question, pointing at the math.

I’ve got a fairly strong track record of pressing for conservatism and critical thinking on safety around here big fella. Easy now…

I guess I just misunderstood your meaning. Apologies

 

[dclouser0]

with that type of risk assessment, wouldn't it make more sense to hunt from the ground? Seems like the logical conclusion to that thought process...

I can see why he misinterpreted. I definitely don't understand the point of this myself then comeback and say you think it's not enough. Feel free to elaborate if I should put in more redundancy.

 

[mattsteg]

I can see why he misinterpreted. I definitely don't understand the point of this myself then comeback and say you think it's not enough. Feel free to elaborate if I should put in more redundancy.

Not to speak for anyone else - but it's not just about redundancy, but rather about evaluating and eliminating the most relevant risks until you are at an adequate safety level.

At some point redundancy adds to your task loading, and makes human error (the biggest factor in many cases) more likely. And other than misusing a ropeman (don't do that) sheath stripping and rope-cutting tend to happen at force levels that will already cripple you.

So be wary of a false sense of security brought about by "adding redundancy". This can often just fool you into thinking you're safe.

The biggest risk factor is leaving the ground and climbing a tree. The next one by a mile is probably human error, rather than failure of appropriate equipment.

 

[BackSpasm]

Seen a lot of mentions about a prusik at the end of the tether here. I'd just like to point out that your prusik should go above the rope man. I put mine up to lean hight. Reason being is the failure usually isn't the mechanism, it's the force from a fall desheathing the rope. The prusik above can catch you if the rope or the fall restraint (ropeman, Kong, ct, etc) fails. I have three points of failure for my tether and two for my bridge. Might be crazy redundant but I'm a med student and graduating this spring and the stories I've heard about students getting permanently injured just before graduating scared the hell outta me. Can really do much with an incomplete medical degree thays going to pay for all those loans. Albeit, an accident that generates that much force from a saddle is really unlikely, I just feel I can never be too safe.

I’m also a medical student. Statistically speaking a desheathing or rope failure is very low on my concern list. What is on my list? Driving to hunt. Stabbing myself with an arrow, falling/slipping while climbing and taking a climbing stick to the thoracic cage etc. Equipment failure at this level is low on my risk assessment list given design and relative strength of my gear. I’ve never heard of a climbing rope desheathing or massive failure of approved equipment in the saddle industry. Usually the accidents are human error, or improper equipment use like paracord bridges, no stopper knot, no linemans belt etc

 

[IslandStorm62]

Still trying to figure out the whole Saddle Hunting gear stuff...so here's another bit that has me head hurting. I was not happy with the grip tension put on my tether by the Schwabisch Hitch. So, I am considering switching to a mechanical device.

Here's my confusion. It seems like most on this forum use some sort of Ascender such as a Ropeman 1 or 2. Why not use a "Fall Arrest" mechanical device instead? Such as Camp Goblin, Wild Country Revo or a GriGri.

 

[WannaBMonkey]

Still trying to figure out the whole Saddle Hunting gear stuff...so here's another bit that has me head hurting. I was not happy with the grip tension put on my tether by the Schwabisch Hitch. So, I am considering switching to a mechanical device.

Here's my confusion. It seems like most on this forum use some sort of Ascender such as a Ropeman 1 or 2. Why not use a "Fall Arrest" mechanical device instead? Such as Camp Goblin, Wild Country Revo or a GriGri.

I think the popularity of the Ropeman has a lot to do with one hand adjustability. Not familiar with devices you mentioned or whether they provide that convenience or not.

 

[PJC]

Ropeman 1 only. Do not use a Ropeman 2. It’ll destroy your rope.
Use a Catalyst hitch instead of a swabisch hitch. Much easier to break loose. Very solid.


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[five]

To Kyler's point, I know several surgeons and dentists that all had varyingly unsafe hobbies in undergrad. Surfing, rock climbing, hunting, woodworking, skydiving and they all stopped doing the hobbies and do other things instead now. They don't put their moneymakers in harms way. When I asked the woodworker about it, he said "it's not worth it and if I'm able, I'll pick it up again when I retire." He's currently a dad, budding chef and mixologist. So he found other things to do that he views safer than his etsy woodworking gig.

So I guess you have to decide if it's worth it to you. And I would agree with BackSpasm, there are so many things that could get you while hunting, other than falling from the tree. Lots of dangers out there. Weigh the enjoyment against the risk. I also recall some long conversations about disability insurance with one of the oral surgeons. I think that the reason she gave up surfing was that her disability insurance specifically would not pay out if she got hurt doing that. So another thing to think about.

 

[IslandStorm62]

I won't use a Ropeman 2 on my Samson Predator rope. The teeth are too aggressive for my rope. The Ropeman 1 is made to work with the size of rope I use.

I guess this all started 'cause I have a Predator 11.4mm, just under the recommended spec of a Ropeman 1 but well within the Ropeman 2 specs. An since we most seem to agree that the Ropeman 2 is kinda toothy, I was checking into alternatives...hence taking a look a Fall Arrest devices. Now thinking through the whole saddle hunting process...I guess the Tether in combination with the "Ropeman or Friction Hitch" is not primarily to catch our fall. Instead it is part of the Saddle System. The Ropeman / Friction Hitch just provides maneuverability and flexibility. This enables us to "LOCK" into our preferred position and change as needed. I don't think the fall arrest devices are supposed to remain locked in a position.

 

[WannaBMonkey]

I guess this all started 'cause I have a Predator 11.4mm, just under the recommended spec of a Ropeman 1 but well within the Ropeman 2 specs. An since we most seem to agree that the Ropeman 2 is kinda toothy, I was checking into alternatives...hence taking a look a Fall Arrest devices. Now thinking through the whole saddle hunting process...I guess the Tether in combination with the "Ropeman or Friction Hitch" is not primarily to catch our fall. Instead it is part of the Saddle System. The Ropeman / Friction Hitch just provides maneuverability and flexibility. This enables us to "LOCK" into our preferred position and change as needed. I don't think the fall arrest devices are supposed to remain locked in a position.

Predator 11.4mn would be IN SPEC for Ropeman 1, would it not? Rated for 11-13 if memory serves.