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safety with autoblock

Fgirtyman said:
Mlasko- I sincerely apologize for giving you misinformation regarding autoblocking 1 stick rapelling. Trying to help…never my intention to misguide. I’ll stay on the sidelines going forward. Best of luck and stay safe.
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Dude don’t ever stay in the sidelines. If you and others hadn’t suggested how to implement the autoblock on this thread (correctly or not) loaded limbs might not have shared the old discussion thread with madrock’s warning. Many people don’t read warnings or instructions so they don’t know. These conversations are worth having and it takes everyone’s input to truly make it productive.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
Dude don’t ever stay in the sidelines. If you and others hadn’t suggested how to implement the autoblock on this thread (correctly or not) loaded limbs might not have shared the old discussion thread with madrock’s warning. Many people don’t read warnings or instructions so they don’t know. These conversations are worth having and it takes everyone’s input to truly make it productive.
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Seriously. I read that warning for the first time after previously stating what I thought I knew was correct. Next time I rappel will likely be without the autoblock. I had never seen the warning before and everything I looked at on this forum/EWOs site/wherever else I gathered info seemed to suggest using the autoblock. It's on me for not reading the directions but it's because of this thread that I'm now more knowledgeable about it and can be safer moving forward.
 
Thanks guys I really, really appreciate this info...happy hunting this coming season!
Appreciative!
ML
Fgirtyman said:
Mlasko- I sincerely apologize for giving you misinformation regarding autoblocking 1 stick rapelling. Trying to help…never my intention to misguide. I’ll stay on the sidelines going forward. Best of luck and stay safe.
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no worries…we all use the internet to help us…I know your intentions were/are to help…being new, just want to make sure I’m trying to be safe and this has definitely been an interesting and useful conversation…
 
I love watching madhunt adventures review videos. Today he released a video telling people to back up their Madrock safeguard with an autoblock on the brake line, attached to the lineman’s loop as we’ve discussed at length, Madrock specifically warns against doing this because it will interfere with the devices ability to absorb force if any type of dynamic event were to occur. I agreed that backing up devices is important but that the safeguard and most likely the gri gri, warn against doing so on the brake line side of the device. I also attached a link to the safeguard instructions. Rather than addressing my comment on you tube the way he did other people’s comments, he deleted my comment instead. I am blown away that you wouldn’t at least want people aware of that warning on your video and maybe edit it to say doing so is at your own risk.
 
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mlasko said:
OK....I can see the location for it now....so my next question is I believe you need two hands when rappeling with the madrock? How can I tend the autoblock while at the same time using two hands for the madrock? Sorry if these are rudimentary but I've reached the age of taking zero chances with safety. I've managed to survive this long (by the grace of God), so I've learned lol....
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You don't need two hands on the Madrock. You have one on the Madrock and one onthe autoblock.
 
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ricky racer said:
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That’s the one… I am a big fan of his videos. He definitely spends time trying things and puts a lot of thought into his content and reviews. If I’m not mistaken he used to get on here and sell off the saddles he bought with his own personal money for reviews. I see 11 comments on the video, but the attached link to madrock’s warnings and instructions that I posted aren’t one of them. I also didn’t see a link to it in the description, but there is a link to the autoblock in the description.
 
The ONLY time I ever use an auto block with my safeguard is when I’m hanging at hunting height, see the pic. I run my autoblock in prusik configuration and clip it to the same carabiner my safeguard is secured to. In this manner it’s not attached to the braking side and serves only as a backup device should my safeguard fail or should I accidentally trigger it such as twisting for a shot and the line somehow activates the lever. I also run out the prusik as far as possible so there is no slack should I drop I don’t want to bounce, see the pic. If I transfer from sitting to leaning and I have to move my safeguard up my tether I slide the prusik up my line and redress the knot. For descending the autoblock is removed.
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Exhumis said:
The ONLY time I ever use an auto block with my safeguard is when I’m hanging at hunting height, see the pic. I run my autoblock in prusik configuration and clip it to the same carabiner my safeguard is secured to. In this manner it’s not attached to the braking side and serves only as a backup device should my safeguard fail or should I accidentally trigger it such as twisting for a shot and the line somehow activates the lever. I also run out the prusik as far as possible so there is no slack should I drop I don’t want to bounce, see the pic. If I transfer from sitting to leaning and I have to move my safeguard up my tether inside the prusik up my like and redress the knot. For descending the autoblock is removed.
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I do the same thing while at hunting height . The reason I do that is because if connected to my brake rope it's hard to pivot in the saddle and I am also connected above my GRIGRI plus just for safety. When done hunting I put my second autoblock on my brake rope and disengage the other autoblock.
 
Although I agree with F1 Canopy Stalker and Loaded Limbs, and they point to some important safety information. We are not using the Safeguard for belaying. What we do is more in line with how the device works AFTER an at height fall occurs, which is easing the fallen climber down. Again, there has been much discussion. Definitely some good reading.

The way I understand it, when the Safeguard is used for its intended purpose of belaying, dynamic rope is used and the device is intended to provide some rope slip when the force of a fall occurs. The dynamic rope has some elongation from the force, and providing the rope is within spec, the safeguard allows for some slip of the rope through the safeguard. If the safeguard were to have an auto block on the brake end of the rope, that could potentially hinder the rope from slipping through the safeguard. Those dynamic forces on the safeguard if restricted by an auto block, could result in catastrophic failure of the Safeguard. But you should read and interpret the manual yourself, and seek expertise when in doubt.

In our application, we are easing ourself down on static rope. I think this is why some have resorted to backing up the safeguard. Whether this is “safer” or not, can be debated. I personally don’t back the safeguard upon decent.
 
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KYRanger said:
Although I agree with F1 Canopy Stalker and Loaded Limbs, and they point to some important safety information. We are not using the Safeguard for belaying. What we do is more in line with how the device works AFTER an at height fall occurs, which is easing the fallen climber down. Again, there has been much discussion. Definitely some good reading.

The way I understand it, when the Safeguard is used for its intended purpose of belaying, dynamic rope is used and the device is intended to provide some rope slip when the force of a fall occurs. The dynamic rope has some elongation from the force, and providing the rope is within spec, the safeguard allows for some slip of the rope through the safeguard. If the safeguard were to have an auto block on the tag end of the rope, that could potentially hinder the rope from slipping through the safeguard. Those dynamic forces on the safeguard if restricted by an auto block, could result in catastrophic failure of the Safeguard. But you should read and interpret the manual yourself, and seek expertise when in doubt.

In our application, we are easing ourself down on static rope. I think this is why some have resorted to backing up the safeguard. Whether this is “safer” or not, can be debated. I personally don’t back the safeguard up on decent.
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When taking off a platform or one stick or sticks you have to go hands free so that's one reason I backup my Madrock and the GRIGRI PLUS. On the Madrock if you panic and pull the handle all the way you are coming down. The GRIGRI Plus has a safety for that. Also they aren't made to be used hands-free. That's what is written in the instructions that came with them.
 
Exhumis said:
The ONLY time I ever use an auto block with my safeguard is when I’m hanging at hunting height, see the pic. I run my autoblock in prusik configuration and clip it to the same carabiner my safeguard is secured to. In this manner it’s not attached to the braking side and serves only as a backup device should my safeguard fail or should I accidentally trigger it such as twisting for a shot and the line somehow activates the lever. I also run out the prusik as far as possible so there is no slack should I drop I don’t want to bounce, see the pic. If I transfer from sitting to leaning and I have to move my safeguard up my tether inside the prusik up my like and redress the knot. For descending the autoblock is removed.
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You’re not on the brake line side, by hooking it the way you did, you’re on the line above the device which is the correct way to do it. Thank you for posting such a clear photo of the set up.
 
KYRanger said:
Although I agree with F1 Canopy Stalker and Loaded Limbs, and they point to some important safety information. We are not using the Safeguard for belaying. What we do is more in line with how the device works AFTER an at height fall occurs, which is easing the fallen climber down. Again, there has been much discussion. Definitely some good reading.

The way I understand it, when the Safeguard is used for its intended purpose of belaying, dynamic rope is used and the device is intended to provide some rope slip when the force of a fall occurs. The dynamic rope has some elongation from the force, and providing the rope is within spec, the safeguard allows for some slip of the rope through the safeguard. If the safeguard were to have an auto block on the tag end of the rope, that could potentially hinder the rope from slipping through the safeguard. Those dynamic forces on the safeguard if restricted by an auto block, could result in catastrophic failure of the Safeguard. But you should read and interpret the manual yourself, and seek expertise when in doubt.

In our application, we are easing ourself down on static rope. I think this is why some have resorted to backing up the safeguard. Whether this is “safer” or not, can be debated. I personally don’t back the safeguard up on decent.
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The safeguard is for belay and descent. Descent on lead line is similar to our use. If something happened and your girth hitch slipped and choked back up 6” lower or anything that caused a dynamic event, the brake line needs to be able to stretch and feed back into the device the help absorb force. By auto blocking that side, we are preventing that from being able to occur. Do I think you’d produce enough force for it to matter while rappelling? No I truly don’t. But Murphy’s law can occur at anytime so I figure why chance it
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
The safeguard is for belay and descent. Descent on lead line is similar to our use. If something happened and your girth hitch slipped and choked back up 6” lower or anything that caused a dynamic event, the brake line needs to be able to stretch and feed back into the device the help absorb force. By auto blocking that side, we are preventing that from being able to occur. Do I think you’d produce enough force for it to matter while rappelling? No I truly don’t. But Murphy’s law can occur at anytime so I figure why chance it
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Agree.
 
I have also been one to incorrectly use (and previously reccomend)! This as well, glad the people that know better already weighed in. Honestly, I've been playing with going back to the ATC today and it's smoother. (Grivel master mono on resc tech, which is actually in spec, unlike my safeguard.). Ok time to switch.
 
thedutchtouch said:
I have also been one to incorrectly use (and previously reccomend)! This as well, glad the people that know better already weighed in. Honestly, I've been playing with going back to the ATC today and it's smoother. (Grivel master mono on resc tech, which is actually in spec, unlike my safeguard.). Ok time to switch.
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I’m still a big fan of @phatkaw figure 8 method and keep one as a back up because of it. Although after seeing how well the Munter works for @Weldabeast I am torn between the two. My first choice for SRT and rappel will be my gri gri plus. It’s just so simple and smooth that it’s hard for me to give it up
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
I’m still a big fan of @phatkaw figure 8 method and keep one as a back up because of it. Although after seeing how well the Munter works for @Weldabeast I am torn between the two. My first choice for SRT and rappel will be my gri gri plus. It’s just so simple and smooth that it’s hard for me to give it up
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These two methods are so bulletproof and simple I can’t bring myself to spend the money on a fancy mechanical! After using it a few times, I think everyone should know how to use a munter (regular/monster/double/whatever version) in case you drop a “needed” device while in the tree.
 
Weldabeast climbs with his setup doesn't he?
He can come back down at any given time during the climb?

I think that'd be nice but I just don't like using my rappel rope as my tether. I've tried to like it but I prefer my separate tethers for climbing...
 
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