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safety with autoblock

Fl Canopy Stalker said:
I’m still a big fan of @phatkaw figure 8 method and keep one as a back up because of it. Although after seeing how well the Munter works for @Weldabeast I am torn between the two. My first choice for SRT and rappel will be my gri gri plus. It’s just so simple and smooth that it’s hard for me to give it up
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A bit busier looking with the separate tether but ATC here we go. Well... Later tonight, but it's ready. I need to buy and try a figure 8. I'm working on knots, munter I still forget sometimes but seems like a good option, I read something about line twist but I dunno if that just an overthinking it issue or a real issue.
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phatkaw said:
The 'turning on ignition key' is what I always have to use for remembering the Munter...
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That's a good one thank you, I need to practice more, I still have to think, I like to be able to tie a knot without looking and while thinking about something else to trust it. So far the list of knots I can do like that is pretty short but the standard prusik and figure 8 get most things done.
 
phatkaw said:
Weldabeast climbs with his setup doesn't he?
He can come back down at any given time during the climb?

I think that'd be nice but I just don't like using my rappel rope as my tether. I've tried to like it but I prefer my separate tethers for climbing...
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I like a separate tether at height myself. Rarely do I need to climb to the top of my climbing rope and having a tether about nose height works best for me.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
I like a separate tether at height myself. Rarely do I need to climb to the top of my climbing rope and having a tether about nose height works best for me.
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Because you rope climb and the rope is usually over a crotch many more feet above you? Man you rope climbers are something else, I feel like I'm pulling multiple muscles just trying to get myself to stay somewhat in line with the tree. Likely all from not trusting the rope and not leaning back enough I think.
 
I saw some videos about backing up the madrock with a carabiner and friction hitch down by the hip and using it to repel which seemed off. I’ve only repelled a few times and it seems like it would be complicated to tend and belay simultaneously.

I do however like to add a friction hitch above the madrock at height for some piece of mind in case it decided to explode to pieces some day. I take the “safety” hitch off the repel rope before I repel down.

I have put a carabiner on my lineman’s loop and fed the repel rope through. So from the madrock down to a carabiner at my hip and hold the tag end up wards…works really smoothly and makes it easy to feather the decent.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
I’m still a big fan of @phatkaw figure 8 method and keep one as a back up because of it. Although after seeing how well the Munter works for @Weldabeast I am torn between the two. My first choice for SRT and rappel will be my gri gri plus. It’s just so simple and smooth that it’s hard for me to give it up
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You should try a happy hands hitch and munter.
 
Craft518 said:
I saw some videos about backing up the madrock with a carabiner and friction hitch down by the hip and using it to repel which seemed off. I’ve only repelled a few times and it seems like it would be complicated to tend and belay simultaneously.

I do however like to add a friction hitch above the madrock at height for some piece of mind in case it decided to explode to pieces some day. I take the “safety” hitch off the repel rope before I repel down.

I have put a carabiner on my lineman’s loop and fed the repel rope through. So from the madrock down to a carabiner at my hip and hold the tag end up wards…works really smoothly and makes it easy to feather the decent.
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This friction hitch near my hip (I used an autoblock) was what I was doing until I was educated about dynamic loading and falls and basically it is still possible for ropes to stretch or loads to occur in a way that the friction hitch could still get sucked up into the madrock and cause failure, even if it seems like it "can't reach" when standing tethered in and set up. It's actually not that hard to tend and rappel, one hand on safeguard lever, one hand on friction knot, let go of either and you stop (some nuance required to make it smooth), but not a good thing to do regardless

The hitch above I think they take issue with as well but am not sure. I've been just tying a figure 8 or alpine butterfly with the tag end and clipping it to my bridge carabiner as a backup to mechanical failure, but after repelling with the ATC again last hunt, it's likely setting my primary device. It's just smoother for me, and less to mess with.
 
thedutchtouch said:
This friction hitch near my hip (I used an autoblock) was what I was doing until I was educated about dynamic loading and falls and basically it is still possible for ropes to stretch or loads to occur in a way that the friction hitch could still get sucked up into the madrock and cause failure, even if it seems like it "can't reach" when standing tethered in and set up. It's actually not that hard to tend and rappel, one hand on safeguard lever, one hand on friction knot, let go of either and you stop (some nuance required to make it smooth), but not a good thing to do regardless

The hitch above I think they take issue with as well but am not sure. I've been just tying a figure 8 or alpine butterfly with the tag end and clipping it to my bridge carabiner as a backup to mechanical failure, but after repelling with the ATC again last hunt, it's likely setting my primary device. It's just smoother for me, and less to mess with.
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There is no safety issue listed anywhere with the hitch above the device as the hitch would tighten and take part of the load (potentially all of it) before the rope reached the rappel device which would limit the force on the belay. People usually take issue with the hitch above because it takes additional space which leans you further out from the tree (for guys that use their rappel rope as a tether, or they take issue because they haven’t learned how to tend the hitch while also manning the brake rope and the belay handle.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
There is no safety issue listed anywhere with the hitch above the device as the hitch would tighten and take part of the load (potentially all of it) before the rope reached the rappel device which would limit the force on the belay. People usually take issue with the hitch above because it takes additional space which leans you further out from the tree (for guys that use their rappel rope as a tether, or they take issue because they haven’t learned how to tend the hitch while also manning the brake rope and the belay handle.
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Thanks for clearing that up for me, makes sense.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
There is no safety issue listed anywhere with the hitch above the device as the hitch would tighten and take part of the load (potentially all of it) before the rope reached the rappel device which would limit the force on the belay. People usually take issue with the hitch above because it takes additional space which leans you further out from the tree (for guys that use their rappel rope as a tether, or they take issue because they haven’t learned how to tend the hitch while also manning the brake rope and the belay handle.
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Curious, how do you maintain the brake end of the rope, tend the hitch and operate the belay handle? I haven't done or tried this so I really don't know. If trying to rappel with the hitch in place above the Safeguard, isn't there also the potential for the hitch above the Safeguard to get into a tightened (or locked) position thus putting you in a bind? Basically causing the you to be stuck unless you can take pressure off the hitch? I can see the hitch above the Safeguard for added safety (backup) at height, but I would think it would be best to remove before descent. But again, I haven't tried this.
 
KYRanger said:
Curious, how do you maintain the brake end of the rope, tend the hitch and operate the belay handle? I haven't done or tried this so I really don't know. If trying to rappel with the hitch in place above the Safeguard, isn't there also the potential for the hitch above the Safeguard to get into a tightened (or locked) position thus putting you in a bind? Basically causing the you to be stuck unless you can take pressure off the hitch? I can see the hitch above the Safeguard for added safety (backup) at height, but I would think it would be best to remove before descent. But again, I haven't tried this.
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There are a couple ways to do all three. One is to bring the hitch to the top of the rappel device, tend the hitch with two fingers and your thumb, while pulling the release lever with the other two fingers. That allows you a free hand to man the brake line. The other way to do it is to add a short small prusik to your bridge or use a carabiner on your prusik, redirect break line back up to where the hitch is (above the rappel device). Then you can hold the brake line firmly in you same hand as you tend the hitch, and this gives you a free hand to work the release lever on the rappel device. Either way works but the redirect might be easier for people with small hands but it requires additional gear. The three finger hitch, two finger lever requires a little more grip and attention but no additional gear.
 
I just take the hitch above off before repel. For me it’s just a safety backup at height. It’s probably unnecessary but I like to have that extra hitch when I’m sitting against the madrock. There’s so much nuance to this and so many ways to back up all the different devices. Facilitating thing to learn. Stay safe out there!
 
Well after deleting my comment on you tube about the autoblock, another gentleman brought it to his attention a couple days later on a couple of his videos. So whoever Tommy is, I thank him for getting the word out. I wanna give the madhunts guy credit too for doing his due diligence by reaching out to Madrock to inquire about the proper way to back up the device. Here is his updated video where he takes ownership. He is correct that manning the prusik and the lever simultaneously isn’t the easiest thing in the world but it’s doable…. It’s also super easy to buy a cheap small Niteize s biner, tie some cheap 95 lbs paracord to it and then attach it above the hitch, hold it in your fingers while you work the brake lever. If something happens you’d release it when you released the brake and the prusik would stop you. Unclip it and put it away when you get to the bottom of the rappel….. easy as pie.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
It’s also super easy to buy a cheap small Niteize s biner, tie some cheap 95 lbs paracord to it and then attach it above the hitch, hold it in your fingers while you work the brake lever. If something happens you’d release it when you released the brake and the prusik would stop you. Unclip it and put it away when you get to the bottom of the rappel….. easy as pie.
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do you know of any videos of this? I have tried above the Madrock and found it too difficult but would like to try this
 
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