SRT with only 2 Ropeman's

[pesqimon]

So I have been playing with SRT for tree climbing a bit. I have RADS technique down but was wondering if a Texas Kick system would be viable and better.

The advantage of the Texas Kick system over RADS is that it is simpler with less gear requirements.

My results were simpler and better than I expected. The only major pieces of gear are two ascenders, such as Ropeman 1 or Duck. These items are less expensive than the items needed for RADS, and many saddle hunters will already have them. I also incorporated a double foot loop and a bungee over the shoulder. The bungee pulls the top ascender up as you stand up.

This method is very quiet. With RADS you have to manage some carabiners so that they don't clink against other metal components. Here you just have to be careful not to bump the bottom ascender into the top one.

Another neat thing is that this uses your regular bridge and ascender in the same position you'd have normally when hunting. So no need for a short bridge or to transfer over (assuming you like to hunt with the 45ft tether). You can also leave the bottom connection on as a backup.

You can descend without changing anything, but it is not as nice as descending on a GriGri2, an ATC or just about anything. So I would probably switch over to my GriGri2 for coming down.

Now for the bad news. It seems the bungee can interfere with the top ascenders effectiveness at biting the rope. In the video you can see that my climb starts fine but at about 35 seconds the Duck doesn't want to grab. I concluded that the rope (9mm Sterling HTP) must be a little thin there, and combined with reduced effectiveness of the ascender resulted in not grabbing quickly. Once I climbed above this region it was fine again. The second video shows me climbing without the bungee and I could tell that there was something different about that section of rope but the device grabbed.

Climbing without the bungee was not too bad, so maybe the answer is just to leave it out. However, the bungee does reduce the effort a bit and frees up the hands more.

First video shows me climbing with the bungee, shows me dealing with the top ascender not grabbing, and climbing down. Second video is climbing with the same system minus the bungee.

Looking forward to all your comments, questions, suggestions or concerns. I'd really like to get the bungee to work!

 

[kyler1945]

I like it. I have been tinkering with SRT for a couple years now in the yard, trying to get to a spot where I feel it's useful for hunting for me. I'm close.

Climbing effort is very similar to using a hand climber, but branches don't affect you.

One area to consider on noise is the tail end of rope moving around in the leaves/brush. if there's a way to keep it still that or quiet that would be helpful.

Also, getting the rope in the tree without presets, easily, would be nice - can you figure that out please !

 

[pesqimon]

One area to consider on noise is the tail end of rope moving around in the leaves/brush. if there's a way to keep it still that or quiet that would be helpful.

Also, getting the rope in the tree without presets, easily, would be nice - can you figure that out please !

Well I think I will have my pack attached to the tail so I can pull it up. This may keep the rope from making that noise.

I still haven’t really started with throwing line. So I’ll get back to you heheheh


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[rakbowhunter]

I like it! Just wish I would have waited to buy all my RADs equipment. Would have saved a bunch of money! Great video too!

 

[mattsteg]

What about tying the tail of the rope off to the base of the tree, above the clutter? That would help with ground level noise, but not "leaves in the tree" noise. For leaves in the tree noise, perhaps you could strap/hitch/tie the tail to the tree at intervals to prevend distrubances from propagating downward, keeping appropriate slack for climbing? My initial setup arrives today so hopefully I'll have more to share moving forward. The safety and cleanliness of SRT approaches is extraordinarily attractive and really cuts out a lot of pain points, if it can be viable.

 

[weekender21]

2 ropeman-1’s, 2 carabiners and a foot loop. Is that it? Looks like you’re using your Tethrd bridge as well. Did you try different bridge lengths?

Cool set-up, lots of options.


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[Tartan]

Looks like a good way to test the waters at least.

I tried using a ropeman as my hand ascender for RADs and had the same issue with it not grabbing the rope. I'm using samson predator, and when the line is taunt holding all my weight I had to use my hand to force the cam down to bite as I applied pressure with my foot to stand up. The ropeman works fine when you grab the tail end and pull through, but you have a fraction of a second when the rope isn't pulled tight and it can cam down and grab it. It doesn't help that i'm ~240+ pounds loaded down with clothes and gear.

Only other thing to note with RADs (i'm using a petzl hand ascender and madrock safeguard) I'm getting about double the amount of travel each time I stand up than it looks like you're getting.

Pros and Cons with each and this does look like a very viable method.

I attached the tail end of the rope to my bag as well and haven't had any issues with the rope cause noise on brush below.

 

[pesqimon]

2 ropeman-1’s, 2 carabiners and a foot loop. Is that it? Looks like you’re using your Tethrd bridge as well. Did you try different bridge lengths?

Cool set-up, lots of options.

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Don't forget a tether from the bottom carabiner to your harness. I tied it to my saddle belt. This is just a backup and should never see tension unless something goes wrong.

I did not try different bridge length mainly because I wanted to see if it could work without messing with the bridge.

 

[pesqimon]

Only other thing to note with RADs (i'm using a petzl hand ascender and madrock safeguard) I'm getting about double the amount of travel each time I stand up than it looks like you're getting.

Pros and Cons with each and this does look like a very viable method.

I think you're right about getting more travel with RADS, but if I get the bungee to work flawlessly it is so smooth and quiet that I think makes up for the shorter travel.

 

[mattsteg]

I like it! Just wish I would have waited to buy all my RADs equipment. Would have saved a bunch of money! Great video too!

I think that unless you know someone and can borrow gear/get advice in person, you just need to jump in and start trying things to compare what works best for you. Otherwise you could wait forever.

 

[Flyerzfan10]

How about tying in some sort of stopper knot every 3 feet or so incase the rope man loses bite. This way you wont slide to the bottom. Just a thought.

 

[pesqimon]

How about tying in some sort of stopper knot every 3 feet or so incase the rope man loses bite. This way you wont slide to the bottom. Just a thought.

Both would have to lose bite at the same time which is unlikely, but if you want an added safety measure you could back up the top ascender with a prusik.

 

[rakbowhunter]

I think that unless you know someone and can borrow gear/get advice in person, you just need to jump in and start trying things to compare what works best for you. Otherwise you could wait forever.

Very true. I was watching a youtube video of JCline using the RADs in he made it look pretty darn easy. I have received some of the equipment and still awaiting others. Like Tartan, I also went with the Mad Rock Safeguard. Since I am very inexperienced with this, I decided to try and make sure I got quality equipment that would keep me safe and was easy to use. I have close to $300 invested now, but if it works I will be very happy.
Very excited to try this out though!

 

[mattsteg]

Very true. I was watching a youtube video of JCline using the RADs in he made it look pretty darn easy. I have received some of the equipment and still awaiting others. Like Tartan, I also went with the Mad Rock Safeguard. Since I am very inexperienced with this, I decided to try and make sure I got quality equipment that would keep me safe and was easy to use. I have close to $300 invested now, but if it works I will be very happy.
Very excited to try this out though!

Probably ideal to start out with a relatively equipment-heavy (within the range of what you're OK to carry), purpose-designed system (if budget allows) and try/compare to pared-down more-minimalist systems, in order to figure out what works best for you.

And this doesn't seem that much less gear-intensive (especially if he's carrying a grigri for the trip down anyway...). So basically a smaller ascender (that could be used in either system). And a slightly different mix of ropes/cords/slings/straps/etc. Seems more like a different system than a less gear-heavy one, with the main difference being just using 2 ascenders vs. having a safeguard/grigri serve that purpose.

 

[pesqimon]

Probably ideal to start out with a relatively equipment-heavy (within the range of what you're OK to carry), purpose-designed system (if budget allows) and try/compare to pared-down more-minimalist systems, in order to figure out what works best for you.

And this doesn't seem that much less gear-intensive (especially if he's carrying a grigri for the trip down anyway...). So basically a smaller ascender (that could be used in either system). And a slightly different mix of ropes/cords/slings/straps/etc. Seems more like a different system than a less gear-heavy one, with the main difference being just using 2 ascenders vs. having a safeguard/grigri serve that purpose.

Good point. I do find this method to be smoother, less strenuous and quieter than RADS. I also don’t like the idea of using the grigri as my tether connection.

To be honest if I decide it’s better to switch to a tether at height then I may just decide to use RADS for the actual climb.


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[Squirrels]

I will try it but with the top ascender not wanting to grab as well on occasion, I think I will probably stick with the Safeguard and Petzl hand ascender. To me the best part of the SRT is the rappeling which is obviously easier and faster with the Safeguard. Pretty cool idea you got there though for someone who might want to try it if they arleady have a couple ascenders.

 

[mattsteg]

Good point. I do find this method to be smoother, less strenuous and quieter than RADS. I also don’t like the idea of using the grigri as my tether connection.

To be honest if I decide it’s better to switch to a tether at height then I may just decide to use RADS for the actual climb.


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Yeah best to try both (and other) methods of rope ascent, figure out what system fits you best in stealth, efficiency, carrying/deployment ease, safety/backups, etc. and go from there. If you have equipment that's not useful to you, you can probably sell it and not be out too much.

 

[Flyerzfan10]

Yeah, didn't about both failing at the same time. I like this idea.

 

[Letemgrowitllshow]

I like the idea! Now just need a fool proof way to get the line up there

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[Hillbilly]

If I remember correctly, Ernie is familiar with using two ropeman's for rope climbing. Maybe if this catches his eye he could share some input on the subject.