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Talk me out of bolts

Woofron said:
I have used bolts for many years, but until now, had no idea there was an aider option. Is there a YouTube video I could watch? I am switching to SRT, so bolts would only be in the trees with no limbs that I could use for the rope. For presets, I use bolts and create a "false crotch" to leave in the tree. Kind of like a tether. I leave a quick link, and paracord for next time....
Click to expand...

20+ feet with 9.5oz.....

After watching Ted Bright climb with his Cranford rope steps and aiders at saddlepalooza it got my gears turnin....I started thinking, why couldn’t I climb the same way with pre-drilled trees and carbon bolts using @ckossuth’s Versa Strap as an aider? I tried it out today and it works better...
saddlehunter.com

This is what turned me on to it.

I thought I’d pair it with rappel. After 5-6 hunts, I just climbed down, and never looked back. It’s not worth the extra weight.

Everyone asks what I do if I drop my aider or it breaks. Well, I have 3 of em. But in worst case scenario, I’d tether in, and use my LB as the aider.


But if you liked rappelling, and having the option, this setup, and your SRT kit, would have you very well rounded and versatile.
 
The only negative I have come across is Ive killed a Cottonwood and a Walnut tree with them. Never had a problem with other Walnuts just the one. Not a huge deal unless it's THE TREE and the only one there. Now thats out of hundreds of trees. Ive never had a problem with Hackberry, Locust, Elm or Hickorys.
 
Today was my first bolt install, it was more difficult than I expected, anyone feel free to set me straight if operator error.

I had a 3/8” auger bit in a cordless drill, and the Treehopper mini with that bit. The tree was a well hydrated maple. The 3/8 harbor freight bit took a lot of repeated boring, chip clearing, and reaming to get the hole big enough for insert of the bolts. The Treehopper bored a better fitting hole, but no matter how much I spun it did not want to come out of the hole unless I put it in reverse. That creates more chips in the hole which I would then redrill to clear. Eventually the hole is made and the drill is out and the bolt fits, but it wasn’t 30 seconds.

One (pre-set) solution for this is to grab a Trehopper bit for the cordless drill (which I will). Of all the issues the difficulty of extraction of the hand drill from the hole is the one I didn’t really expect (the initial drilling in was pretty easy btw)… By the 12th hole up, the issues still were not solved. Once the bolts were in, climbing is easy. But also, these bolts aren’t just popping out on the way down - some do, others are vice grip situations even in these new holes.

I’m committed to the method and this is tree #1, but this was my experience.
 
neonomad said:
Today was my first bolt install, it was more difficult than I expected, anyone feel free to set me straight if operator error.

I had a 3/8” auger bit in a cordless drill, and the Treehopper mini with that bit. The tree was a well hydrated maple. The 3/8 harbor freight bit took a lot of repeated boring, chip clearing, and reaming to get the hole big enough for insert of the bolts. The Treehopper bored a better fitting hole, but no matter how much I spun it did not want to come out of the hole unless I put it in reverse. That creates more chips in the hole which I would then redrill to clear. Eventually the hole is made and the drill is out and the bolt fits, but it wasn’t 30 seconds.

One (pre-set) solution for this is to grab a Trehopper bit for the cordless drill (which I will). Of all the issues the difficulty of extraction of the hand drill from the hole is the one I didn’t really expect (the initial drilling in was pretty easy btw)… By the 12th hole up, the issues still were not solved. Once the bolts were in, climbing is easy. But also, these bolts aren’t just popping out on the way down - some do, others are vice grip situations even in these new holes.

I’m committed to the method and this is tree #1, but this was my experience.
Click to expand...
Drill until the drill bit spins freely, and is no longer going further in. This happens because the stopper bottoms out. Then I continue drilling in clockwise motion while pulling back on the handle, slowly backing the bit out by force, but allowing it to clear chips on its way back by the clockwise motion.
 
kyler1945 said:
Drill until the drill bit spins freely, and is no longer going further in. This happens because the stopper bottoms out. Then I continue drilling in clockwise motion while pulling back on the handle, slowly backing the bit out by force, but allowing it to clear chips on its way back by the clockwise motion.
Click to expand...
This is what I did, and I do believe that it works. Which leads me to think I either need to free spin more in the bottom of the hole - man was I pulling out hard on that drill while spinning it… or more likely this maple was just pretty wet and for some reason grabbier than the average tree. Time and more experience will tell.
 
Bolts are kings in private preset. I leave them in trees at home. Cost less than any other materials and its so fast to get up and down a tree for practice.
 
They aren’t legal on every property. I don’t use them when hunting pines. If I’m not sure where I’m hunting I’ll carry my one sticks which aren’t my quietest stick but my lightest. If I know I’m hunting a ridge or hardwood bottom I grab bolts and hand drill.
 
Don't use bolts in trees where you or the landowner care about that tree's future monetary value. It degrades the quality which will hurt the sell price of it later.
 
The main two advantages I see with this bolt and aider system are 1) no need to drill the offhanded bolts (left side for me), and 2) you would only be drilling half as many holes. I need to try this out. It's a shame I don't have too many places where these are legal for me to use anymore, but in places where the landowner is cool with it, they are the preferred method for presets.
 
NMSbowhunter said:
The main two advantages I see with this bolt and aider system are 1) no need to drill the offhanded bolts (left side for me), and 2) you would only be drilling half as many holes. I need to try this out. It's a shame I don't have too many places where these are legal for me to use anymore, but in places where the landowner is cool with it, they are the preferred method for presets.
Click to expand...

Cons:

You’re drilling all but one bolt above your head.

You need dexterity to remove the aider from the bolt. Thick gloves sometimes make this difficult. I use an aider with a small loop, maybe a big one is less likely to pull a bolt out of the hole. I’ve never done it. But I could see it happening to someone not paying attention.

You need to practice once or twice in daylight with no time pressure to figure out the best bolt spacing.

If you don’t use an aider with a second loop halfway up the aider, you’re standing on one bolt on one foot drilling a hole above your head. Not tenable. Follow my forthcoming advice on aider build.

You will drill one extra bolt hole well above your platform because you need the aider to get to that height.

Alignment of last bolt you stand on and your platform- I typically use ring of steps with hybrid so it doesn’t matter. But when using a stand or platform, you need to plan your 2nd to last bolt where it makes it easy to use that as your plant foot, and the aider foot is the one that first transitions onto platform. This is more of a fine detail.

Getting the aider off your foot once set - if you’re not flexible or have a huge belly it might be a challenge. I also have forgotten to do it, and had it make noise with a deer coming in and me moving to make a shot.

—————


Aider - I use a sewn original versa strap for an aider. Girth hitch it around my foot. It’s essential(at least so far for me) that it stays tight, and that the girth hitch comes off the inside of my foot, not the middle top of my foot. The benefit of the versa strap is that it has multiple loops in case I have uneven drilling scenarios. But most importantly it has loops halfway between the end and my foot. Why is this important?

I drill two holes from ground. One bolt at 36”ish, once at 72”ish. My aider length from bottom of boot to top loop is 54”+ extra for wrapping across face of tree. You need to test this out if you intend to make one, but the versa strap is 72” long. Girth hitch probably takes up 8-10” on my boot, so that leaves about 6-8” of extra to make up the distance for wrapping across face of tree. Hang loop on bolt above head, wrap aider across tree and it puts my foot 18” off ground, opposite side of tree from my bolts. Lineman’s belt on, step up on aider. Set lineman’s again, step up on bolt at 36”. Set lineman’s. Take aider loose from bolt that was overhead and is now at waist level, laying the aider over my lineman’s belt so it doesn’t drop. Fish loop in middle of aider onto that bolt, and now I can stand with both feet even, and lineman’s belt supporting me. This allows me to drill the next bolt overhead with proper balance and both hands.

Rinse repeat.
 
kyler1945 said:
Cons:

You’re drilling all but one bolt above your head.

You need dexterity to remove the aider from the bolt. Thick gloves sometimes make this difficult. I use an aider with a small loop, maybe a big one is less likely to pull a bolt out of the hole. I’ve never done it. But I could see it happening to someone not paying attention.

You need to practice once or twice in daylight with no time pressure to figure out the best bolt spacing.

If you don’t use an aider with a second loop halfway up the aider, you’re standing on one bolt on one foot drilling a hole above your head. Not tenable. Follow my forthcoming advice on aider build.

You will drill one extra bolt hole well above your platform because you need the aider to get to that height.

Alignment of last bolt you stand on and your platform- I typically use ring of steps with hybrid so it doesn’t matter. But when using a stand or platform, you need to plan your 2nd to last bolt where it makes it easy to use that as your plant foot, and the aider foot is the one that first transitions onto platform. This is more of a fine detail.

Getting the aider off your foot once set - if you’re not flexible or have a huge belly it might be a challenge. I also have forgotten to do it, and had it make noise with a deer coming in and me moving to make a shot.

—————


Aider - I use a sewn original versa strap for an aider. Girth hitch it around my foot. It’s essential(at least so far for me) that it stays tight, and that the girth hitch comes off the inside of my foot, not the middle top of my foot. The benefit of the versa strap is that it has multiple loops in case I have uneven drilling scenarios. But most importantly it has loops halfway between the end and my foot. Why is this important?

I drill two holes from ground. One bolt at 36”ish, once at 72”ish. My aider length from bottom of boot to top loop is 54”+ extra for wrapping across face of tree. You need to test this out if you intend to make one, but the versa strap is 72” long. Girth hitch probably takes up 8-10” on my boot, so that leaves about 6-8” of extra to make up the distance for wrapping across face of tree. Hang loop on bolt above head, wrap aider across tree and it puts my foot 18” off ground, opposite side of tree from my bolts. Lineman’s belt on, step up on aider. Set lineman’s again, step up on bolt at 36”. Set lineman’s. Take aider loose from bolt that was overhead and is now at waist level, laying the aider over my lineman’s belt so it doesn’t drop. Fish loop in middle of aider onto that bolt, and now I can stand with both feet even, and lineman’s belt supporting me. This allows me to drill the next bolt overhead with proper balance and both hands.

Rinse repeat.
Click to expand...

Another bonus safety feature if done properly. I try to have the bolts at waist level be just below where I set my lineman’s belt for drilling the next bolt. If I were to slip or fall, my lineman’s belt is likely going to catch that bolt, so I don’t continue to slide down the tree.
 
Back to basic drilling, has anyone else followed the recommended procedure with the drill and still had issues with drill extraction after the hole is done, on certain trees?
 
neonomad said:
Back to basic drilling, has anyone else followed the recommended procedure with the drill and still had issues with drill extraction after the hole is done, on certain trees?
Click to expand...

Really wet stringy wood trees are always a pain. I’ve encountered a couple. Hole seems to shrink before I can shove a bolt in. I keep something flat and hard to bump them in if needed.
 
neonomad said:
Back to basic drilling, has anyone else followed the recommended procedure with the drill and still had issues with drill extraction after the hole is done, on certain trees?
Click to expand...
I have found this as a general rule. A hard tree like an oak will be easier to drill because the drill cuts clean chips and the hole is smoother. On a soft tree, the chips are stringier, and the hole has a lot of stringy fibers in it, so it is not as smooth. Also, the purpose build bits from treehopper etc are slightly larger than 3/8. If you buy a 3/8 auger bit from Home Depot or Lowes, etc. it will not generally cut as large a diameter hole and the bolts may not fit.
 
Aeds151 said:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
neonomad said:
Today was my first bolt install, it was more difficult than I expected, anyone feel free to set me straight if operator error.

I had a 3/8” auger bit in a cordless drill, and the Treehopper mini with that bit. The tree was a well hydrated maple. The 3/8 harbor freight bit took a lot of repeated boring, chip clearing, and reaming to get the hole big enough for insert of the bolts. The Treehopper bored a better fitting hole, but no matter how much I spun it did not want to come out of the hole unless I put it in reverse. That creates more chips in the hole which I would then redrill to clear. Eventually the hole is made and the drill is out and the bolt fits, but it wasn’t 30 seconds.

One (pre-set) solution for this is to grab a Trehopper bit for the cordless drill (which I will). Of all the issues the difficulty of extraction of the hand drill from the hole is the one I didn’t really expect (the initial drilling in was pretty easy btw)… By the 12th hole up, the issues still were not solved. Once the bolts were in, climbing is easy. But also, these bolts aren’t just popping out on the way down - some do, others are vice grip situations even in these new holes.

I’m committed to the method and this is tree #1, but this was my experience.
Click to expand...
In several threads, I've tried to describe the differences in tree fibers that may or may not drill nice and clean with an adequate diameter hole. Some tree species, and sometimes even within the same tree, just bore inconsistently. And some holes close snug within minutes and other holes wont get snug even after a couple years of the bolt left in that hole. It seems that the harder, more brittle tree species drill the hole cleaner and more precise. But it's no guarantee. I know that I sound like a broken record but I can't overestimate how useful mini vice grips are for pulling bolts. They are sometimes even helpful for installing bolts.

As far as the difficulty in clearing the hole while drilling...
It's obviously a piece of cake with a cordless but the hand drill can be a little tight at times. Once again, it can vary from tree to tree and hole to hole.
I find that after the bit strips out as designed, I just do a reverse-forward- reverse-etc as I pull out on the drill.
I will say that the current drill bit design is not quite as efficient as the old Woodpecker drill bit. There are some seemingly insignificant (but critical) differences in the design of the old bit and the new bit. But this new bit is all there is to choose from for the hand drill. Gotta make the best of it by fine tuning and practicing your drilling sequence. I still urge presetting with a cordless when feasible.
For run and gun drilling, a hand drill is still pretty good.
I also believe that drilling while tethered, as opposed to using a lineman, is better. You can transfer your weight off of the narrow bolts and sit back in the saddle. A tether also allows you to reposition yourself for boring left-right-left-etc holes. And the tether is not in the way of the drill like a lineman often is.
 
I've never tried it tethered, just on a lineman's belt. I bet that would help with foot pressure by transferring weight to your seat. I am with you on the cordless drill for presets. I believe that one of the manufacturers, maybe Treehopper, tapers the bit a little with it being larger at the front cutting edge and narrower down by the base. This slight taper helps to make the bit less tight.
 
I use a standard 3/8" bore bit. Seems it helps to run it in and out a few times to help clear the hole. Hasn't been an issue with the original Treehopper bolts or the extra grade 8's I bought. Seems all of the holes require "cleaning".

For guys that went lighter.....carbon or titanium?
 
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