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Tree Styx

Jtaylor said:
They seem like a renegade in a flooded market but it looks like they had too much time on their hands coming up with this design.
I feel like you're fooling yourself if you don't think these are the best of times for saddle hunting and being the top man in the wilderness.
The guy inventing them looks like a blue collar man and hopefully he can show me the way up the tree. :)
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I just got this @Jtaylor !!! :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
 
Plebe said:
Yeah, I don’t see any hardware other than for the aiders. There is a center hole visible on the top tree bracket but it seems that’s for the aider pull on the bottom tree bracket and the top is just a manufactured duplicate part.

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It almost seems impossible to have that much more standoff AND built in aiders, and still hit 1lb in a strong and durable stick.

Hope they cracked the code.
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I thought with the One sticks that I'd consider making the steps/standoffs an end cap and then run amsteel/etc between the two and tighten it down, that way you stand on bottom step and it pulls top step down onto tube. They might have done that instead of drilling carbon fiber tube or using just glue.
 
raisins said:
I thought with the One sticks that I'd consider making the steps/standoffs an end cap and then run amsteel/etc between the two and tighten it down, that way you stand on bottom step and it pulls top step down onto tube. They might have done that instead of drilling carbon fiber tube or using just glue.
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I remember when you posted about that. And thought of it when Arsenal’s design employed a tether in their sticks.

I don’t know how you’d tension it from what I see of the Tree Styx design, but what do I know.

Time will tell, I suppose.
 
Didn't the ATA start today....or soon? Maybe someone will have a quick review after actually seeing these in person?

EDIT: Never mind! I just discovered the 2024 Gear Thread! I'm old......so leave me alone! LOL
 
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Plebe said:
I remember when you posted about that. And thought of it when Arsenal’s design employed a tether in their sticks.

I don’t know how you’d tension it from what I see of the Tree Styx design, but what do I know.

Time will tell, I suppose.
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You've got a great memory!
 
Anyone here a physics major? Thinking about using just a bonding or "welding" substance for the joint. When that thing is strapped to the tree. How much force is really being exerted on that "bond"? The stick is locked to the tree. So seems the amount of force being applied to the joint it's self should be lessened some? Everyone bashed that one company for using a little roll pin at that connection. This whole lower assembly looks like one piece. Not accounting for the movement it takes when you climb it. But how much force is actually being applied trying to pull that joint apart? I wonder if maybe it's not as much as we think. If we could put one together with out any bonding material do you think it could still be useable?
 
MattMan81 said:
Anyone here a physics major? Thinking about using just a bonding or "welding" substance for the joint. When that thing is strapped to the tree. How much force is really being exerted on that "bond"? The stick is locked to the tree. So seems the amount of force being applied to the joint it's self should be lessened some? Everyone bashed that one company for using a little roll pin at that connection. This whole lower assembly looks like one piece. Not accounting for the movement it takes when you climb it. But how much force is actually being applied trying to pull that joint apart? I wonder if maybe it's not as much as we think. If we could put one together with out any bonding material do you think it could still be useable?
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I’m not a physics major. Nor do I own a stick company.

But a person without either of those titles can solve this problem themselves.

3:1 safety factor, million duty cycles, computer generated FEA, real world cycle testing on a couple sticks to confirm what the pooter says. Cost - probably 20-50k if you don’t have a buddy for the FEA or the testing.

I’m still really surprised when I sit and think that all stick companies aren’t doing the above, and that people think they’re getting this type of peace of mind. The internet flattens everything.



I’ve never understood the urge to copy someone’s idea with the purpose of making it cheaper or yourself. Unless you want to make it better.

What’s the goal here?
 
I’m surprised these haven’t gotten more coverage at the ata show. Haven’t seen a single video other than the companies. Personally I think these will be superior to the ones as long as they hold up. It may take a generation or two but the stacking system is better and more efficient. In-line stacking. “No chandeliering”. Different step length options. Integrated aiders. Longer standoff distance. Supposedly he’s been working on this design for three years. I’d like to support this guy at some point but I won’t be a first gen tester on these.
 
Plus I THINK they’re lighter. Not sure if he’s weighing with the aider, stacking system, attachment rope or not but if he is kudos to him. My 3 ones with 1 two step aider and 2 single aiders along with the G3D sss is 4.2lbs.
 
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FEA will only give you stress for a given input force/load. It is also dependent on how you model the joint. Clearly there needs to be a gap for assembly, so is there a glue or weld? That complicates FEA in how those stress risers are applied. Once you have a stress from FEA, you then need to know how the load is going to be applied over time, and then you need to know how the material will handle the load over time. While material properties of carbon fiber are pretty well understood, whatever bonding process is not. In my world steel plates are easy but as soon as you throw a weld into the mix it gets a lot more complicated.

Here's my attempt at a free body diagram for forces. If a 200 pound person is standing stationary, that 200 pounds would be divided between both offset pieces. Summing the forces in the Z direction, the 2 offset forces have to sum to 200. I just put them each at 100 for simplicity. Where it gets more interesting is if you some the torque around the tree contact point on the bottom offset. I get that there is contact area at the tree and not just a rotation point, but in dynamics and tree variation, you probably approach a rotation point. That would mean the joint would have to support the force the person is exerting on it during a climb.

Someone feel free to shoot holes in my attempt.

Sorry for the multiple pictures. First one was rotated so I fixed that, but apparently loaded multiple in the process that I now can't remove.
 

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roosterstraw said:
I’m surprised these haven’t gotten more coverage at the ata show. Haven’t seen a single video other than the companies. Personally I think these will be superior to the ones as long as they hold up. It may take a generation or two but the stacking system is better and more efficient. In-line stacking. “No chandeliering”. Different step length options. Integrated aiders. Longer standoff distance. Supposedly he’s been working on this design for three years. I’d like to support this guy at some point but I won’t be a first gen tester on these.
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I almost thought they didn’t show, but they are there.


3E309EB0-F504-49EE-8461-331D866029E4.png

 
kyler1945 said:
I’m not a physics major. Nor do I own a stick company.

But a person without either of those titles can solve this problem themselves.

3:1 safety factor, million duty cycles, computer generated FEA, real world cycle testing on a couple sticks to confirm what the pooter says. Cost - probably 20-50k if you don’t have a buddy for the FEA or the testing.

I’m still really surprised when I sit and think that all stick companies aren’t doing the above, and that people think they’re getting this type of peace of mind. The internet flattens everything.



I’ve never understood the urge to copy someone’s idea with the purpose of making it cheaper or yourself. Unless you want to make it better.

What’s the goal here?
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My goal was some guys will turn away from a stick like this because he thinks the bond between the post and the step will fail. I was just offering a thought that maybe the bond there doesn't need to hold 900 lbs (3:1) like we think. I could be entirely wrong as my brain doesn't understand the math involved. But maybe someone who calculates that stuff for a pay check could elaborate on those forces more. 6 guys on a forum say it doesn't look strong enough to me and that becomes the standard is all I was pointing out. I can't speak to it either way unless I purchased a set and did real world testing my self.
 
I think we over estimate the force we put on stuff and under estimate the strength of components. By a huge margin.
 
Man what a great invention. I like them but I’m not so sure about glue holding the steps to the post. Would feel more comfortable if there was a nut and bolt of something. Am I overthinking this?
 
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