Weighing "Mobile" Tree Climbing Options (A Points Based System)

[kbetts]

By that logic you should be hunting on the ground. That is, if you don't suck at it.

That doesn't even make sense.

 

[BTaylor]

You have no idea how I think.

Don't be offended.

I dont remember last when the wife allowed me to think.

 

[raisins]

You have no idea how I think.

Don't be offended.

i m not offended

what you wrote assumes what I wrote

I’m trained to find the faulty assumptions in arguments

I don’t know how you think in general but I know your argument is wrong and why

you are assuming that being into X has to detract from Y, that is not the case except in specific circumstances that do not necessarily hold here

 

[redsquirrel]

I'm still surprised more people don't use wild edge stepps and that they didn't even make the list. I started using them in 2017 and still use them with a knaider because I haven't found something I feel balances out all my concerns as much as they do.

I'm evaulating this as a fully mobile method. Nothing beats a preset tree with preset bolts or screw in steps.

Weight- 1 pound per step, so 6-7 pounds depending how many I bring. Early season 6, late 7 3/5
cost- The thing I'm least concerned about, I probably have 5 full sets of stepps to cover the rest of my life.- 3/5
Noise- extremely silent when you know how to use them-4/5
Safety- sometimes they might slip a little but they aren't going anywhere the way they are tied to the tree. With the knaider I love having a handhold above. 4/5
Bulk-Packs nice and compact and carries well. This makes up for the higher weigh than other methods IMHO.- 5/5
Time -Practice makes perfect- 4/5.

23. End of discussion .

 

[kyler1945]

I'm still surprised more people don't use wild edge stepps and that they didn't even make the list. I started using them in 2017 and still use them with a knaider because I haven't found something I feel balances out all my concerns as much as they do.

I'm evaulating this as a fully mobile method. Nothing beats a preset tree with preset bolts or screw in steps.

Weight- 1 pound per step, so 6-7 pounds depending how many I bring. Early season 6, late 7 3/5
cost- The thing I'm least concerned about, I probably have 5 full sets of stepps to cover the rest of my life.- 3/5
Noise- extremely silent when you know how to use them-4/5
Safety- sometimes they might slip a little but they aren't going anywhere the way they are tied to the tree. With the knaider I love having a handhold above. 4/5
Bulk-Packs nice and compact and carries well. This makes up for the higher weigh than other methods IMHO.- 5/5
Time -Practice makes perfect- 4/5.

23. End of discussion .

I keep 10 stepps, I’ll never sell. I prefer them over any stick option currently available. Once you learn knot/tension, they’re pretty simple. And quiet. And stable.

I still marvel over how he came up with the concept. It is not intuitive at all.

 

[gcr0003]

Hey bubba, why are you handicapping the one stick?
You are talking climbing methods right? You shouln't imply they have or need a small platform. You are misleading newbies. I don't use one on mine. Tried it and didn't like the added weight or bulk. My 12" stick is under 2lbs.
Cost should be sub $100 too, even more so if you already own climbing sticks. A liitle DIY and you've got yourself a onestick on the cheap.
You 2TC guys always tryin to undermine the king OG onestick!

The small platform mention was only to say that it wasn’t very expensive or heavy build. Since one sticks get crazy expensive now days with the stuff you can add I wanted it to just be basic. That said i didn’t consider it handicapped however it is fair to only look at a one stick no platform like you said which would make the weight 5/5 and cost 4/5. For the record one sticking is still a top favorite of mine and personally considered to me as one of the best overall methods.

I'm still surprised more people don't use wild edge stepps and that they didn't even make the list. I started using them in 2017 and still use them with a knaider because I haven't found something I feel balances out all my concerns as much as they do.

I'm evaulating this as a fully mobile method. Nothing beats a preset tree with preset bolts or screw in steps.

Weight- 1 pound per step, so 6-7 pounds depending how many I bring. Early season 6, late 7 3/5
cost- The thing I'm least concerned about, I probably have 5 full sets of stepps to cover the rest of my life.- 3/5
Noise- extremely silent when you know how to use them-4/5
Safety- sometimes they might slip a little but they aren't going anywhere the way they are tied to the tree. With the knaider I love having a handhold above. 4/5
Bulk-Packs nice and compact and carries well. This makes up for the higher weigh than other methods IMHO.- 5/5
Time -Practice makes perfect- 4/5.

23. End of discussion .

They weren’t intentionally left off the list, I just didn’t think about them at the time. I will be adding single steps as well as WE stepps to the 2.0 list

 

[Crawdaddy4]

I think most people should be hunting on the ground a lot more. Different topic for a different thread.

But my reasoning on gear for climbing trees is most definitely grounded in a hunting strategy that involves being in best position to kill deer. Not finding suitable trees to climb. I only start looking at climbing when climbing is the best option to kill deer by a wide margin. It’s not worth the time and risk otherwise.

By ignoring climbing until I have to do it, I minimize the risk I take on board. And I kill way more deer because I’m not preoccupied with 3rd, 4th, 5th steps in the process before I’ve checked 1st box - finding deer that can be killed, and being good at it.

A lot of folks come to this discussion thinking they HAVE to climb trees to kill deer. Or they HAVE to climb trees to improve their odds dramatically. In some cases, that could be true. But in many cases, there’s tons of other variables that can improve success.

This is why I point to thinking about WHY you hunt in the first place. And why I think being honest about that is necessary to assessing risk, and resource allocation in regards to hunting.

For me, I can admit to myself that i really hunt to make other people like me. climbing a tree to do that becomes considerably less interesting. May not stop doing it. But it will frame the whole problem much differently.

That take is extremely unpopular on here. But it’s one worth considering.

This breaches a conversation (at times uncomfortable) that I've had with other hunters over the years. It's one that hinges on the argument that they like accumulating and playing with gear, more so than hunting. Example: I know hunters who would rather hunt a tree/area that allowed them to utilize a particular saddle, climbing method, climbing stand, or see 1000 yards with their new scope, than to pick an area that was most conducive to them killing a deer.

In all transparency, I love gear, I'm definitely a gear-head. But, it's function is still tied to the endgame of bagging more animals. If the gear fails to do that, it's a moot point. There's also the law of diminishing returns. At what point does saving 6 oz on my saddle or climbing sticks weight contribute to increasing my kill ratio? Now, if I adopt a hunting method that allows me to get into trees/areas I once couldn't (saddle versus climber) then it's empirically demonstrative that there was a benefit gained in accumulating different gear.

My point is to support your assertion that each hunter should really assess WHY they hunt in the first place. Could be the sport of taking game, the meat harvested, enjoying solitude in the outdoors, social acceptance (peer pressure), or they like to collect and utilize hunting gear.

 

[kyler1945]

This breaches a conversation (at times uncomfortable) that I've had with other hunters over the years. It's one that hinges on the argument that they like accumulating and playing with gear, more so than hunting. Example: I know hunters who would rather hunt a tree/area that allowed them to utilize a particular saddle, climbing method, climbing stand, or see 1000 yards with their new scope, than to pick an area that was most conducive to them killing a deer.

In all transparency, I love gear, I'm definitely a gear-head. But, it's function is still tied to the endgame of bagging more animals. If the gear fails to do that, it's a moot point. There's also the law of diminishing returns. At what point does saving 6 oz on my saddle or climbing sticks weight contribute to increasing my kill ratio? Now, if I adopt a hunting method that allows me to get into trees/areas I once couldn't (saddle versus climber) then it's empirically demonstrative that there was a benefit gained in accumulating different gear.

My point is to support your assertion that each hunter should really assess WHY they hunt in the first place. Could be the sport of taking game, the meat harvested, enjoying solitude in the outdoors, social acceptance (peer pressure), or they like to collect and utilize hunting gear.

I guess one important clarification is that all the reasons you list for people to hunt, all are downstream of "to make people like me". Hence the unpopularity of the opinion.

I hunt for sport - so people who hunt for sport like me.

I hunt to get meat (in an age of industrial scale farm operations)- so people who eat meat or hunt to get meat like me.

I enjoy being in the outdoors - so people who enjoy being in the outdoors like me.

I buy gear - so people who buy gear like me.

Eliminate the social aspect (being able to tell your buddy or the internet about it), and suddenly almost everything we do becomes completely uninteresting.

No one is interested in accepting the implications of that premise. But, in my opinion, taking that on board is pretty freeing. And leads to much better outcomes on most things we care about. Including not dying while hunting...And killing deer - which makes people like us!

 

[LAKY]

I guess one important clarification is that all the reasons you list for people to hunt, all are downstream of "to make people like me". Hence the unpopularity of the opinion.

I hunt for sport - so people who hunt for sport like me.

I hunt to get meat (in an age of industrial scale farm operations)- so people who eat meat or hunt to get meat like me.

I enjoy being in the outdoors - so people who enjoy being in the outdoors like me.

I buy gear - so people who buy gear like me.

Eliminate the social aspect (being able to tell your buddy or the internet about it), and suddenly almost everything we do becomes completely uninteresting.

No one is interested in accepting the implications of that premise. But, in my opinion, taking that on board is pretty freeing. And leads to much better outcomes on most things we care about. Including not dying while hunting...And killing deer - which makes people like us!

I refuse to live life just to be liked. There are plenty of things I do for personal pleasure. Hunting is one of those. It would be a sad life, just to live it for others.

 

[kyler1945]

I refuse to live life just to be liked. There are plenty of things I do for personal pleasure. Hunting is one of those. It would be a sad life, just to live it for others.

Feel free to share how you broke the curse of being a social primate.

 

[Islandshooter]

I refuse to live life just to be liked. There are plenty of things I do for personal pleasure. Hunting is one of those. It would be a sad life, just to live it for others.

“What other people think of you is none of your business” …pretty good words to live by, IMO

 

[Islandshooter]

I refuse to live life just to be liked. There are plenty of things I do for personal pleasure. Hunting is one of those. It would be a sad life, just to live it for others.

“What other people think of you is none of your business” …pretty good words to live by, IMO.

 

[LAKY]

Feel free to share how you broke the curse of being a social primate.

Doing things for self pleasure is also an attribute of primates.

 

[Crawdaddy4]

I guess one important clarification is that all the reasons you list for people to hunt, all are downstream of "to make people like me". Hence the unpopularity of the opinion.

I hunt for sport - so people who hunt for sport like me.

I hunt to get meat (in an age of industrial scale farm operations)- so people who eat meat or hunt to get meat like me.

I enjoy being in the outdoors - so people who enjoy being in the outdoors like me.

I buy gear - so people who buy gear like me.

Eliminate the social aspect (being able to tell your buddy or the internet about it), and suddenly almost everything we do becomes completely uninteresting.

No one is interested in accepting the implications of that premise. But, in my opinion, taking that on board is pretty freeing. And leads to much better outcomes on most things we care about. Including not dying while hunting...And killing deer - which makes people like us!

You've just eloquently described and made an example for Tajfel's Social Identity Theory.

However, my personal opinion is that some people are capable of making decisions for themselves that are independent from the influence (acceptance/affirmation) of others. In fact, especially with today's Western culture, I try to evaluate more of my decisions against the collective consensus that I ever have before...just to make sure

 

[kyler1945]

You've just eloquently described and made an example for Tajfel's Social Identity Theory.

However, my personal opinion is that some people are capable of making decisions for themselves that are independent from the influence (acceptance/affirmation) of others. In fact, especially with today's Western culture, I try to evaluate more of my decisions against the collective consensus that I ever have before...just to make sure

So long as the basis for his theory is sexual and natural selection, and doesn't account for the illusion of free will, maybe so!

Ok ok ok we need @gcr0003 to update his spreadsheet so we can get back to hootin' and hollerin' over climbing methods.

 

[gcr0003]

I’m planning on changing ‘Safety’ to something like ‘Hazards’. Starting at 5, 1point will removed for each hazard. Obviously hazards can mitigated but we’re not getting into specifics like that just like we’re not getting into sticks can be silenced by tape. So there would be 1 pt fall hazard for methods that climb with only a lineman’s belt which would include sticks, steps, etc. A good example here is that someone can mitigate that hazard by also climbing with a tether like raisins suggested; however, that is not how the item is normally used, nor is it going into that much detail so 1 point would still be removed for each. 1 point removed for snag/hook/stab risk which are generally present on stick steps, bolts, etc. I would like to have one or two identifiable hazards. I’m considering a wet use hazard and was thinking of rope climbing methods. Some rope combos work ok in the rain but truthfully many have not tested their combos in the rain and there is a risk of failure due to the wet rope. Another might be kick out hazard which could be against one-stick, sticks, spurs,

I may remove points from the hazards section and simply list hazards that are identifiable for each basic climbing method. Or if I leave points I’ll have the applicable hazards tied to the score.

since we are considering climb time for out of the box configs I’m also considering making a column for climb height since some methods like sticks are limited as we all know.

 

[kyler1945]

I’m planning on changing ‘Safety’ to something like ‘Hazards’. Starting at 5, 1point will removed for each hazard. Obviously hazards can mitigated but we’re not getting into specifics like that just like we’re not getting into sticks can be silenced by tape. So there would be 1 pt fall hazard for methods that climb with only a lineman’s belt which would include sticks, steps, etc. A good example here is that someone can mitigate that hazard by also climbing with a tether like raisins suggested; however, that is not how the item is normally used, nor is it going into that much detail so 1 point would still be removed for each. 1 point removed for snag/hook/stab risk which are generally present on stick steps, bolts, etc. I would like to have one or two identifiable hazards. I’m considering a wet use hazard and was thinking of rope climbing methods. Some rope combos work ok in the rain but truthfully many have not tested their combos in the rain and there is a risk of failure due to the wet rope. Another might be kick out hazard which could be against one-stick, sticks, spurs,

I may remove points from the hazards section and simply list hazards that are identifiable for each basic climbing method. Or if I leave points I’ll have the applicable hazards tied to the score.

since we are considering climb time for out of the box configs I’m also considering making a column for climb height since some methods like sticks are limited as we all know.

Why is climbing with lineman’s only a hazard?

Why is climbing with a tether not?

This is the whole problem. It’s reinforcing the belief that climbing with a tether, or hanging from a tether, is inherently safer than not, for hunters. You have no strong evidence to suggest that.

 

[kyler1945]

Hazard for all methods of climbing a tree: being high enough off the ground to be subject to the forces of gravity, in a way that could cause life altering injury or death.

Score for all methods: minimum 4.999/5.




It is not proper framing to suggest that being tethered in while climbing makes a person significantly safer than using a linemans belt. Not in the context of hunting and climbing trees to do it. Not in context of thousands of people improperly trained and unqualified to climb. It’s irresponsible to suggest this.

 

[gcr0003]

Why is climbing with lineman’s only a hazard?

Why is climbing with a tether not?

This is the whole problem. It’s reinforcing the belief that climbing with a tether, or hanging from a tether, is inherently safer than not, for hunters. You have no strong evidence to suggest that.

You know why climbing with only a lineman’s belt is a risk. Because if you slip you are most likely to fall, and fall far.

Hazard for climbing with tether could be shock risk or fall factor risk.

This is only noting hazards that are inherent to certain methods not saying that one is safer than the other. If I take away the score then it’s only denoting the risks, not stating one is more safe.

Would it make you happy if I just removed hazards completely.

 

[kyler1945]

You know why climbing with only a lineman’s belt is a risk. Because if you slip you are most likely to fall, and fall far.

Hazard for climbing with tether could be shock risk or fall factor risk.

This is only noting hazards that are inherent to certain methods not saying that one is safer than the other. If I take away the score then it’s only denoting the risks, not stating one is more safe.

Would it make you happy if I just removed hazards completely.

I’m not suggesting that climbing with a lineman’s belt isn’t risky. Or come with certain hazards. It most certainly does.

I’m not suggesting I have a preference to climb with a lineman’s belt, or that anyone else should.

I’m saying you, and almost everyone else here, are wholly unqualified to say that climbing while tethered to a tree, in all the forms that takes, is LESS risky than climbing with a lineman’s belt. This way of thinking, talking, writing, and video making will get people killed. It already has.