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Who has snorted the Fairy Dust?

I'm shooting pretty similar to @jiwhite86 , I'm also curious if the bump in TAW is worth it. I happen to have some arrows that come in at 550 with a 125 head and foc in the low to mid teens. Just switched to rip xv 300 spine with lighted nock, 60gr halfcert and a 175 Ashby from alien. I think I'm like 20-22 or so % foc. 475-500 taw.

Looks like by the rules I should stick with the higher foc
 
Horn said:
I'm shooting pretty similar to @jiwhite86 , I'm also curious if the bump in TAW is worth it. I happen to have some arrows that come in at 550 with a 125 head and foc in the low to mid teens. Just switched to rip xv 300 spine with lighted nock, 60gr halfcert and a 175 Ashby from alien. I think I'm like 20-22 or so % foc. 475-500 taw.

Looks like by the rules I should stick with the higher foc
Click to expand...
Working class bowhunter did a podcast with GrizzlyStik. It answers your's and a lot of other's questions.

www.workingclassbowhunter.com

Working Class Bowhunter

The WCB Podcast! Changing the way you think about outdoor podcasts! Feel like your in hunting camp with your close friends. Join us as we learn and cut up with bowhunters just like you.
www.workingclassbowhunter.com www.workingclassbowhunter.com
 
jgleas114 said:
Working class bowhunter did a podcast with GrizzlyStik. It answers your's and a lot of other's questions.

www.workingclassbowhunter.com

Working Class Bowhunter

The WCB Podcast! Changing the way you think about outdoor podcasts! Feel like your in hunting camp with your close friends. Join us as we learn and cut up with bowhunters just like you.
www.workingclassbowhunter.com www.workingclassbowhunter.com
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Do you have a certain one in mind?
 
Horn said:
I got about 35-40 min in. Not to bad but It's hard for me find a block of time all at once to listen or YouTube for information. If it's more than about 5-8 minutes I'm pretty much out.

I'll try to get more in. I think I can tell where it was headed though

Thanks for the link!
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I use the Google Podcast app on my Samsung. Pretty much every podcast mentioned on here, I've been able to find and add to my queue. I do a lot of driving and get sick of both repetitive music and talk radio/NPR so podcasts are my go-to. It might take me a week to get through a 3-hour MeatEater episode but oh well. YouTube videos don't work like that for me.
 
NMSbowhunter said:
Here are a couple of take aways from this video and the one prior where he shoots the buck straight on in the neck and loses it. First, he states in a recent video he is shooting lower poundage now and maybe that was the cause of the failure. I believe he stated it was in the 50 to 55 pound range.
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I’ve shot through both scapulas with a 42# longbow drawing 28-1/4”. I didn’t do that with a 440 grain arrow and a punch point 3 blade broadhead. I did it with 585 grains and a 2 blade single bevel. His draw weight isn’t the reason he didn’t recover those two bucks.

The first buck was not hit in the neck, and I don’t see how people keep saying it. He hit that deer directly in the knuckle of the humerus and scapula. With a 650 grain arrow drawing close to 30” like Dan does, that arrow cuts the heart out. The second buck was a combination of suboptimal arrow setup and poor logic in shot planning. Hunting low in the tree, 30 yard shot, stopping the deer, and you aim for the top of the vitals knowing the deer will drop? Regardless, my belief is a single bevel, even with limited penetration, splits the vertebrae and possibly severs the spinal cord. People think the bone is what drops deer or paralyzes vertebrates, it isn’t. The spinal cord has to be severed or damaged.

I think Dan could reevaluate his setup but I don’t believe he will.
 
So I'll sum up, my take of the pod cast.

My take aways. Not some kind of law or gospel. One guys opinion.

The only thing that strays slightly from the typical 12 points of Ashby is that they're willing to give some TAW in favor of trajectory.

They also focus heavily on FOC, they called it "slug" wieght - comprising BH, insert ( out/ half whatever), and footer/weights. Everything up front.

So, Victory archery is in the conversion, save weight on carbon as to maintain FOC.

Again very much appreciated @jgleas114
 
JSEXTON23 said:
I’ve shot through both scapulas with a 42# longbow drawing 28-1/4”. I didn’t do that with a 440 grain arrow and a punch point 3 blade broadhead. I did it with 585 grains and a 2 blade single bevel. His draw weight isn’t the reason he didn’t recover those two bucks.

The first buck was not hit in the neck, and I don’t see how people keep saying it. He hit that deer directly in the knuckle of the humerus and scapula. With a 650 grain arrow drawing close to 30” like Dan does, that arrow cuts the heart out. The second buck was a combination of suboptimal arrow setup and poor logic in shot planning. Hunting low in the tree, 30 yard shot, stopping the deer, and you aim for the top of the vitals knowing the deer will drop? Regardless, my belief is a single bevel, even with limited penetration, splits the vertebrae and possibly severs the spinal cord. People think the bone is what drops deer or paralyzes vertebrates, it isn’t. The spinal cord has to be severed or damaged.

I think Dan could reevaluate his setup but I don’t believe he will.
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I agree on the draw weight not being a factor. In his last video he stated he was shooting 50 pounds. He also said people have commented he should have used a single bevel and he said something to the effect of he is interested in or likes the idea of the single bevel. (417) The struggle is real - YouTube (6:50 seconds in)
 
Horn said:
they called it "slug" wieght
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Actually slugs is a measurement.

“So what is a “slug?” A slug is defined as the mass that is accelerated by 1 ft/s2 when a net force of one pound (lbf) is exerted on it. One slug is a mass equal to 32.1740 lb (14.59390 kg) based on standard gravity. Basically, momentum is a measurement of the concentrated force of an object that is moving in a specific direction at a specific point in time. For bowhunters: It’s the force that enables the arrow to push through the animal’s hide, tissue, bone, etc.”
 
NMSbowhunter said:
I agree on the draw weight not being a factor. In his last video he stated he was shooting 50 pounds. He also said people have commented he should have used a single bevel and he said something to the effect of he is interested in or likes the idea of the single bevel. (417) The struggle is real - YouTube (6:50 seconds in)
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He said he couldn’t shoot 30 yards with a heavy arrow. That’s simply not true. Weird how the THP guys were hitting a target at 65 yards while helping Troy and Darrell collect lab radar data on arrow velocity erosion. I get it, they were shooting more draw weight, but this excuse of heavy arrows and trajectory is tired. I shot 3D tournament archery as a youth, drawing 24-26”, shooting 45#, and using a 550 grain arrow. 30 yards was not unmanageable.

I will also add this: if you are consistently relying on shooting deer at 30 yards plus, perhaps your arrow setup is secondary to your general hunting strategy.
 
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JSEXTON23 said:
Actually slugs is a measurement.

“So what is a “slug?” A slug is defined as the mass that is accelerated by 1 ft/s2 when a net force of one pound (lbf) is exerted on it. One slug is a mass equal to 32.1740 lb (14.59390 kg) based on standard gravity. Basically, momentum is a measurement of the concentrated force of an object that is moving in a specific direction at a specific point in time. For bowhunters: It’s the force that enables the arrow to push through the animal’s hide, tissue, bone, etc.”
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That's an excellent definition, I'd read more of that if there was more info there. I'm much more of a reader than poscadt/video guy.

They used the term a little differently. To refer to the total weight of the components up front.
For example you could have TAW of 500gr using a 12gr insert and a 100gr head. That arrow has a 112 gr "slug"
You could have a 500gr arrow with a 75gr insert and a 125gr head and have a 200 gr "slug"
They make the argument that a bigger slug is better, just like a shotgun ( according to them). So really just as a way to talk about FOC in relationship to TAW
 
I guess it's crazy hard for some of u peeps to wrap ur head around the fact that heavier arrow shoots flatter than a light arrow but at longer distances....shoot at 150yds, the lighter arrow slows down and looses momentum much faster so ur aim point would be higher up above the target...more mass and more momentum in a heavier projectile so "flatter" flight path...graduate sloping hill vs steep drop off of the lighter projectile.....however...it is kinda mute point at our hunting range...me also thinks if u wanted to shoot heavier arrows at longer distances u just need single pin slider, sharpie, and half a day and that issue goes away also.
 
One of those popular bow guys, who I don't remember name, did some super long distance exhibition shots at like 500yds or some other astronomical distance and I remember he said in passing, not going into detail, how his normal arrows wouldn't go that far and he made new heavier arrows to make the distance...u guys maybe saw it...it was on utube
 
Its physics. Long range rifle shooters shoot heavy for caliber bullets because they lose velocity slower than a bullet that starts out fast. Light and fast sheds velocity quicker.
 
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So maybe he didn't say his normal arrows wouldn't make it but that's what he said without saying it....hahahah

"They're heavy" and " did u see the tail go sideways and the point going straight" are pretty good takeaways
 
JSEXTON23 said:
I’ve shot through both scapulas with a 42# longbow drawing 28-1/4”. I didn’t do that with a 440 grain arrow and a punch point 3 blade broadhead. I did it with 585 grains and a 2 blade single bevel. His draw weight isn’t the reason he didn’t recover those two bucks.

The first buck was not hit in the neck, and I don’t see how people keep saying it. He hit that deer directly in the knuckle of the humerus and scapula. With a 650 grain arrow drawing close to 30” like Dan does, that arrow cuts the heart out. The second buck was a combination of suboptimal arrow setup and poor logic in shot planning. Hunting low in the tree, 30 yard shot, stopping the deer, and you aim for the top of the vitals knowing the deer will drop? Regardless, my belief is a single bevel, even with limited penetration, splits the vertebrae and possibly severs the spinal cord. People think the bone is what drops deer or paralyzes vertebrates, it isn’t. The spinal cord has to be severed or damaged.

I think Dan could reevaluate his setup but I don’t believe he will.
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I watched both videos. I instantly wondered what his setup was and how much draw weight he was pulling. If he said his arrow weight, I didn't catch it. He did say it was an "heavy arrow" but some people's "heavy" is another person "light". However, I think he might re evaluate. If those 2 occurances don't cause him to think about his set up then nothing will. Similar outcomes are what got me and probably thousands of other bowhunters to reevaluate their setups. He states he was shooting 50 lbs. I'm 53 and pull 70lbs easily. It's the max I can accurately shoot. I will admit 65lbs is probably better for me but old habits die hard. I can't speak for Dan and to what he able to draw and shoot accurately. IMO 50 lbs is too light for big Wisconsin mature bucks especially with todays letoffs. If he was able to pull 5 or 10 lbs more and still shoot accurately then I think he would have killed one or both of those bucks. I also firmly believe if he had an Ashby style arrow, he would have killed probably both bucks. He would have benefited greatly if he had both a heavier draw weight and an Ashby arrow. He also mentioned that he was concerned about the trajectory of the arrow. 10 more lbs would have canceled any(if any IMO) negative affects the heavier arrow. Your experience is an excellent example of what an Ashby style arrow can do. RF's largest boar is also another example. Hopefully Dan looks at his set up. I know I would if I were in his shoes. It's never too late for an old dog to learn new tricks.
 
I went heavy a few years ago, and the results were good. Bone breaking hits on both animals. Not on purpose, but a pronghorn dropping the shot and an elk rib centered were the hits. Both dead quick. If I were to have shots with a max of 30ish yards id still be using them. I shoot a newer bow, 60 lb draw weight and 28 inch draw. I hunt the west and have a bunch of shots in the 40 to 60 yard range. I had to be within 3 yards of yardage estimate to have lethal hits on deer or pronghorn. My arrow drop was tremendous. I went back to my tradtional weight arrow 412grns. and im stilling killing elk,deer, and pronghrn, but my yardage estimates can be off by 6 to 8 yards and still have good hits at distances. Wasnt for my hunting style but the heavy arrows do work on bone.

Sent from my octopus using Tapatalk
 
IrishnId said:
I went heavy a few years ago, and the results were good. Bone breaking hits on both animals. Not on purpose, but a pronghorn dropping the shot and an elk rib centered were the hits. Both dead quick. If I were to have shots with a max of 30ish yards id still be using them. I shoot a newer bow, 60 lb draw weight and 28 inch draw. I hunt the west and have a bunch of shots in the 40 to 60 yard range. I had to be within 3 yards of yardage estimate to have lethal hits on deer or pronghorn. My arrow drop was tremendous. I went back to my tradtional weight arrow 412grns. and im stilling killing elk,deer, and pronghrn, but my yardage estimates can be off by 6 to 8 yards and still have good hits at distances. Wasnt for my hunting style but the heavy arrows do work on bone.

Sent from my octopus using Tapatalk
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Curiosity wants me to ask what your "heavy" setup weighed and was there room for going somewhere between there and 412 for a moderate weight system?

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