Found a video of Ropeman Failure (unclear if it is a ropeman 1 or 2)

[ThereWillBeSpuds]

Gotcha, thanks for the details. Sounds like its pretty well thought out.

So 2 questions, since we're kind of talking about improper use of gear, the ropeman specifically(I dont use them by the way):

1) Are you tying off the grigri at height? regardless of the camming action, they are not designed to ever have your hand of the brake strand out of the braking position, even when locked onto the rope. Kind of defeats the purpose of using it, sense if it is tied off it no longer is adjustable and your tether becomes a fixed length(granted it takes 5 seconds to tie off)
2) Are you aware the grigri is not designed for use, or tested with static rope?(unless the manuals and tech specs have changed since I last read it, which is possible)--not saying it cant be used in that application, just that is is not the recommended use by the manufacturer...

Yes, whenever I take my hand off the tag end, I tie an alpine butterfly knot just in case. Though I will say it doesn't take much for the grigri to bite on the 11mm rope. When I have tried less girthy ropes it has been a bit easier to feed slack.

I was not aware that the grigri was intended only for dynamic rope, don't remember that in the documentation. I will have to look into that.

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[ThereWillBeSpuds]

@Vtbow the petzl site appears to be ok with grigri and static rope.

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[bj139]

Yes, whenever I take my hand off the tag end, I tie an alpine butterfly knot just in case. Though I will say it doesn't take much for the grigri to bite on the 11mm rope. When I have tried less girthy ropes it has been a bit easier to feed slack.

I was not aware that the grigri was intended only for dynamic rope, don't remember that in the documentation. I will have to look into that.

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11mm static rope through a Gri Gri? That is tight. I know, "That's what she said". It must be hard to release even with full handle application. If you are climbing SRT, how do you ever have any slack in your climbing line? I never do. I can't have a fall factor at all unless my main line breaks.

 

[Vtbow]

Yes, whenever I take my hand off the tag end, I tie an alpine butterfly knot just in case. Though I will say it doesn't take much for the grigri to bite on the 11mm rope

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I definitely not arguing that doesn't grab!!! It holds very solid. The reasoning.isnif you slip and grab the gri gri, or some how put pressure on it in the correct position, even not using the handle, it will release.

Here's a screen shot of recommended rope specs from the manual that comes with the gri gri

 

[kyler1945]

@Vtbow the petzl site appears to be ok with grigri and static rope.

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ensure you keep the rope taught between climber and belayer = no slack in hunting situations.

 

[ThereWillBeSpuds]

11mm static rope through a Gri Gri? That is tight. I know, "That's what she said". It must be hard to release even with full handle application. If you are climbing SRT, how do you ever have any slack in your climbing line. I never do. I can't have a fall factor at all unless my main line breaks.

The only sketchy thing I ever really do is standing on the squirrel steps and adjusting the position of the tether once I get to height. Like if I am not happy with where it ended up left to right when I pulled it up the tree ill slightly unweight it and shimmy it around the tree.

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[bj139]

The only sketchy thing I ever really do is standing on the squirrel steps and adjusting the position of the tether once I get to height. Like if I am not happy with where it ended up left to right when I pulled it up the tree ill slightly unweight it and shimmy it around the tree.

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Yes. You are right. I forgot. I do the same thing with a platform. I could have a fall of about 2 to 4 inches which I don't think would kill me.

 

[ThereWillBeSpuds]

ensure you keep the rope taught between climber and belayer = no slack in hunting situations.

Yeah the possibility of small amounts of slack through my inattention or foolhardiness is why I have the dynamic sling between me and my grigri. To reduce peak loads on myself and on the equipment in the event of a small fall

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[Bango Skank]

What system are you climbing on @elk yinzer ?

 

[Brocky]

Also, leaving aside hunting, climbing with spurs is a pretty dynamic technique, and presents lots of opportunity for losing balance or grip. You see tree squeezes, and the like for situations like this.

I just simply wanted to point out to you, and more specifically to people reading your post mindlessly, that lineman's belts ARE NOT INTENDED and WILL NOT catch you if you fall. If they do, it's a lucky break. They are intended to prevent you from falling in the first place.

Linemans belt will stop you from falling, but only after sliding down a little ways. The Treesquezes came about to prevent the sliding, but pole climbers for many years only used a strap. I would use the LB when going up, keeping it as high behind the tree as possible, and always leaning back into it. This also keeps from pinching your fingers as they are at your hips. The plastic zip strips on the tether are a good idea, but unnecessary if using the LB to its full potential. A line preset in the tree would eliminate the tedious process of advancing the tether, with the LB to keep you next to the tree.

 

[kyler1945]

Linemans belt will stop you from falling, but only after sliding down a little ways. The Treesquezes came about to prevent the sliding, but pole climbers for many years only used a strap. I would use the LB when going up, keeping it as high behind the tree as possible, and always leaning back into it. This also keeps from pinching your fingers as they are at your hips. The plastic zip strips on the tether are a good idea, but unnecessary if using the LB to its full potential. A line preset in the tree would eliminate the tedious process of advancing the tether, with the LB to keep you next to the tree.

“might stop you” not “will stop you”

It’s incredibly dangerous to say that a lineman’s belt will perform above and beyond its intended purpose on the internet. This is not a conversation amongst experienced climbers by a campfire as they discuss their experience. This is the internet. And thousands of eyes are watching this. And they are not experienced climbers. Someone WILL read your post, and interpret what you said at face value - they can depend on a lineman’s belt to prevent a fall. I know your intentions aren’t malicious. But this just plain wrong. Someone will die because of it.

It’s simple enough to speak clearly, and plainly about facts, and not take the easy slide into what our small individual sample sizes would lead us to believe.

 

[Vtbow]

“might stop you” not “will stop you”

.... This is the internet. And thousands of eyes are watching this. And they are not experienced climbers. Someone WILL read your post, and interpret what you said at face value - they can depend on a lineman’s belt to prevent a fall. I know your intentions aren’t malicious. ....

And this is my exact reason of pointing out even the grigri setup @ThereWillBeSpuds(I"m not picking on you, I promise, just using you as an example since you have been an active part of this thread) is using may not be up to manufacturer recommendations 100%. If we can't condone ropeman use when it is not in spec or applied usage is not 100% along the manufacturer guidelines, we can not say "This other way which is 90% correct" is any "Safer"(shutter, hate saying that word) is any better.

I"ve said it before, but why choose to do something against manufacturer and industry guidelines in an environment where there are so many variables we can't control? And to recommend that these practices one-up each other, when neither of them are "best practices" is purely negligent.

 

[ThereWillBeSpuds]

"This other way which is 90% correct" is any "Safer"(shutter, hate saying that word) is any better.

But some methods and equipment *are* safer than others. Climbing SRT with a grigri and arborists ropes is definitely safer than climbing sticks with daisy chains and a 4 step aider and an oplux linesman belt adjusted with a ropeman 1.

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[kyler1945]

But some methods and equipment *are* safer than others. Climbing SRT with a grigri and arborists ropes is definitely safer than climbing sticks with daisy chains and a 4 step aider and an oplux linesman belt adjusted with a ropeman 1.

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what makes you so confident in that statement?

what evidence do you have to support your statement?

 

[ThereWillBeSpuds]

what makes you so confident in that statement?

what evidence do you have to support your statement?

It should be apparent on its face. Aiders are unstable, daisychains are less reliable, oplux is well out of spec for the ropeman... if you can't see how that is less safe then I can't help you.

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[ThereWillBeSpuds]

Climbing SRT with a grigri and arborist rope is safer than climbing sticks tied on with weed whacker line and a lineman belt made out of paracord attached to your Levis' belt loops with Keychain carabiners.

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[bj139]

But some methods and equipment *are* safer than others. Climbing SRT with a grigri and arborists ropes is definitely safer than climbing sticks with daisy chains and a 4 step aider and an oplux linesman belt adjusted with a ropeman 1.

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I tend to think so too. I have no evidence.

 

[bj139]

what makes you so confident in that statement?

what evidence do you have to support your statement?

Do you have evidence to support the opposite? It sounds like you do.

 

[kyler1945]

It should be apparent on its face. Aiders are unstable, daisychains are less reliable, oplux is well out of spec for the ropeman... if you can't see how that is less safe then I can't help you.

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im not asking you for help. I’m asking you to explain what exactly you think makes one of those groups of equipment more “safe” than the other.

As in, what is “safe” specifically, not abstractly?

as in, what evidence do you have to support your assessment that one of those groups of equipment, without exception, makes one “safe” by your definition of it, while the other makes one unsafe.

If you’re going to speak in absolutes, and give the appearance you know what you’re talking about, please give us the reasons why.

I’m not picking a fight. I’m asking you to be clear, for people who are not reading this as carefully as we might assume.

 

[bj139]

I couldnt bear to watch him add any more kit to his setup. Shhhhhh.

All those slings are weighing me down. I can barely walk in.