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LWCG double step release

ajvandenbosch8 said:
Here is the latest
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Conspiracy theory: Probably a different stick. You notice Andrae is wearing different clothes. Pic definitely not taken right after they stood on it. Lol. IDK maybe it’s the lighting but his pants definitely look darker in the pic where they are standing on the stick.
 
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Oh, and I'm not really worried about the weight rating personally cause I'm under 200, but here is my thoughts on how a business should handle these things. I can understand that it was posted as a mistake, and everyone makes mistakes, so here is the simple way it should have been corrected. As soon as the mistake was noticed and the number changed on the webpage (remember they were sold out at that point), an email should have gone out to everyone who placed an order for the sticks and notified them that there was a change to the specs and they would be happy to cancel any orders if requested. Sure there might have been some unhappy people still but at least they would have been notified.
 
The mechanical engineer in me has to voice my concerns over using bolts for the standoffs. Bolts are intended to be loaded primarily in tension and clamp components together or possibly shear where the two components are in close contact and under load are trying to effectively scissor the bolt in half. Bolts are not intended for supporting bending loads as are being applied in this application. Applying a load perpendicular to a bolt at an unsupported length will create bending stresses at the base of the bolt and bend it. Effectively the length of the bolt provides a lever to increase ability to deform it.

The calculations are pretty simple and, assuming that is a 3/8" grade 8 bolt, 3" long from where it exits the stick, it will only take around 145 lbs to permanently bend it. Make that distance 4" and the bending force is down to the 110# range. It's better for a 7/16" bolt where the forces are approximately 225# and 170# respectively. Considering there's 4 bolts this may not seem like a problem at first but consider what happens if there happens to be a knot or high spot immediately under one of the standoffs. That will create a situation where that standoff is carrying almost all of the vertical load of the stick. In that instance it would be pretty easy to apply enough load to bend the standoff. Once it bends it is possible that the stick could loose its grip on the tree and kick out. Best case you just end up with a stick with a bent bolt you need to replace.
 
boyne bowhunter said:
The mechanical engineer in me has to voice my concerns over using bolts for the standoffs. Bolts are intended to be loaded primarily in tension and clamp components together or possibly shear where the two components are in close contact and under load are trying to effectively scissor the bolt in half. Bolts are not intended for supporting bending loads as are being applied in this application. Applying a load perpendicular to a bolt at an unsupported length will create bending stresses at the base of the bolt and bend it. Effectively the length of the bolt provides a lever to increase ability to deform it.

The calculations are pretty simple and, assuming that is a 3/8" grade 8 bolt, 3" long from where it exits the stick, it will only take around 145 lbs to permanently bend it. Make that distance 4" and the bending force is down to the 110# range. It's better for a 7/16" bolt where the forces are approximately 225# and 170# respectively. Considering there's 4 bolts this may not seem like a problem at first but consider what happens if there happens to be a knot or high spot immediately under one of the standoffs. That will create a situation where that standoff is carrying almost all of the vertical load of the stick. In that instance it would be pretty easy to apply enough load to bend the standoff. Once it bends it is possible that the stick could loose its grip on the tree and kick out. Best case you just end up with a stick with a bent bolt you need to replace.
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I'm no rocket surgeon but there's no way that math is right, if it only takes 110 pounds to bend a bolt at 4 inches of hang out and me being 225 pounds I should be able to fold a 3/8 bolt and I know for a fact it wont. I feel bolts are getting a bad wrap because there new on the scene. tree hopper sells regular SHCP bolts for steps, for 5 bucks you can buy an Ameristep screw in step that isn't anything more then a bent piece of round stock with thread on it. The sticks I'm making use 3/8 bolt as stand offs only because I can make them stack really nice and with the prototype I made and tested I have no fear using bolts. That's just my 2 cents.
 
gcr0003 said:
You can’t see yielding... what’s that Avett Brothers song

“Ain’t it like most people, like to talk on things they don’t know about”

“Ain’t it like most people, I’m no different, like to talk on things they don’t know about”

Someone needs to be in the business of actually stress analyzing these stands and sticks. Does anyone know the test procedure to certify a stand per TMA? Is it destructive testing?
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gcr0003 said:
You can’t see yielding... what’s that Avett Brothers song

“Ain’t it like most people, like to talk on things they don’t know about”

“Ain’t it like most people, I’m no different, like to talk on things they don’t know about”

Someone needs to be in the business of actually stress analyzing these stands and sticks. Does anyone know the test procedure to certify a stand per TMA? Is it destructive testing?
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I don't think destructive testing is mandated. I think a stand has to ho
gcr0003 said:
You can’t see yielding... what’s that Avett Brothers song

“Ain’t it like most people, like to talk on things they don’t know about”

“Ain’t it like most people, I’m no different, like to talk on things they don’t know about”

Someone needs to be in the business of actually stress analyzing these stands and sticks. Does anyone know the test procedure to certify a stand per TMA? Is it destructive testing?
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Sticks are subjected to 500 cycles of a load 1.5x the rated weight capacity. Steps currently do not have ASTM standards. TMA doesn't test anything, they're a manufacturers association that promotes adherence to ASTM standards. Not sure what stands are subjected to, but sticks arent subjected to failure.

Learned all that when trying to figure out if I thought carbon/titanium bokts were "safe."
 
I’m sure they will be fine and also fit the bill
For some folks. At least they are something different. I’m tired of the great mystery reveal of the same old thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
 
MNHunter1827 said:
I'm no rocket surgeon but there's no way that math is right, if it only takes 110 pounds to bend a bolt at 4 inches of hang out and me being 225 pounds I should be able to fold a 3/8 bolt and I know for a fact it wont. I feel bolts are getting a bad wrap because there new on the scene. tree hopper sells regular SHCP bolts for steps, for 5 bucks you can buy an Ameristep screw in step that isn't anything more then a bent piece of round stock with thread on it. The sticks I'm making use 3/8 bolt as stand offs only because I can make them stack really nice and with the prototype I made and tested I have no fear using bolts. That's just my 2 cents.
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The math is straight forward.

Bending Stress = Mc/I
M= applied moment = F x L = 110lbs x 4in = 440 in-lbs
F = Applied Force (110lbs)
L = Length (4in)
c = distance to outer fiber = d/2 = .324 / 2 = .162in
d = bolt diameter (minor diameter of a 3/8-24 thread is .324)
I = moment of inertia (round cross section) = pi*d^4/64 = pi*(.324)^4/64 = .000541 in^4

Applied Stress = 440 x .162 / .000541 = 131,770 psi

Yield Stress for a Grade 8 bolt = 130,000 psi


This is greater than the accepted yield stress for a grade 8 bolt.
 
smcchevy said:
Testing hunting climbing gear would be my dream job. If all 4x bolts share the "300 lb" load you are under a safety factor of 2X (I bet that's why the capacity changed).

Bolts don't belong in bending.

@boyne bowhunter beat me to it...


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Don’t forget that the strap would be typically holding majority of the stress of a stick. For these sticks the bolts cut into the tree which means it doesn’t slide down as much, which means when you load the stick you are loading up the bolts more. That’s what makes it concerning to me.
 
boyne bowhunter said:
The math is straight forward.

Bending Stress = Mc/I
M= applied moment = F x L = 110lbs x 4in = 440 in-lbs
F = Applied Force (110lbs)
L = Length (4in)
c = distance to outer fiber = d/2 = .324 / 2 = .162in
d = bolt diameter (minor diameter of a 3/8-24 thread is .324)
I = moment of inertia (round cross section) = pi*d^4/64 = pi*(.324)^4/64 = .000541 in^4

Applied Stress = 440 x .162 / .000541 = 131,770 psi

Yield Stress for a Grade 8 bolt = 130,000 psi


This is greater than the accepted yield stress for a grade 8 bolt.
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A couple of assumptions were made regarding weight applied per bolt (110 lbs), and the weight distribution amongst the four standoff bolts in those climbing sticks; also consider the FS (factor of safety). In any event, that is correct.....for a static situation. No worries, the situation ‘improves’ in a dynamic situation.....
 
gcr0003 said:
Don’t forget that the strap would be typically holding majority of the stress of a stick. For these sticks the bolts cut into the tree which means it doesn’t slide down as much, which means when you load the stick you are loading up the bolts more. That’s what makes it concerning to me.
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The strap is carrying the clamp load holding the stick to tree.

Once loaded, the bending force in the steps/bolts/whatever is the bending force, the only way it changes (statically speaking) is if the stick moves down the tree, the load changes or something fails.
 
Think i may have to order these once back in stock. I like the idea, one piece, no moving parts. Anyone know if they come with straps or is that an add on?
 
Melly-Mel said:
Think i may have to order these once back in stock. I like the idea, one piece, no moving parts. Anyone know if they come with straps or is that an add on?
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they come with cam straps
 
Why don't they just say preorders for all?the 0.5 say order now but are really preorders I contacted them on the stand and the are really preorders Screenshot_20200718-124241_Chrome.jpg
 
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They take customers money and fund the products while customers wait a long time. In my opinion it’s a terrible business model. I fell for it once waited 4 months longer than the 3 month expected so 7 months before I got my sticks. Never again I don’t care how nice the products are.


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