Tethrd One Sticks ..... take my money already

[MIbowhunter49]

I really don't want to keep bringing this up...but they've released 1 mechanical product (and now a second size) to support human weight, and that one product had issues. And I'll admit it also left a bad taste to see tethrd prostaff badmouthing competitor platforms, suggesting they were underdeveloped and undertested...while leaving known-bad product on the market.

I guess it'd become "ancient history" somewhere after tethrd manages a successful release of a non-sewn product other than a simple scale up.

Also as others have mentioned there's an industry-wide trend of new products with unforeseen issues - why not try and foresee them as well as discuss new aspects of construction (and build confidence in that manner).

Again, because its all speculation from wannabe engineers. But, okay. We've seen 8 pictures, so that trumps FEA.

 

[mattsteg]

Again, because its all speculation from wannabe engineers. But, okay. We've seen 8 pictures, so that trumps FEA.

Actually, pretty sure we've seen FEA results on an early prototype posted on this site.

And also plenty of actual engineers and fabricators commenting.

 

[Plebe]

I'm with you. Just a lot of speculation. Im not a tethrd fan or fan boy, but to their credit they've sold a heck of a lot of product in the past year and I've heard **** about failures, or even issues.

At what point does "a history of releasing stuff you stand on that's so light/underdesigned that it fails at height" become ancient history?

What's on the horizon....

Titanium the wheelchair, titanium the road cycle, titanium the race car...titanium the climbing stick.

And the obligatory merchandising.... tethrd the saddle, tethrd the platform, tethrd the nation....

To be clear, I've no beef with Tethrd....just having some fun...but it's no fun when gear sold to hold someone in an elevated position fails to do so.

I don't know all the details of the past situation that's been brought up. I believe this to be true: 1st, you gotta have stuff that's reliable, second you gotta have folks' trust. I understand why it could be hard for folks to give their trust if there is a history, whether or not current stuff is reliable. So...in these cases a company has to work towards ancient history by establishing a good track record...and even then some folks aren't going to let go, nor do they have to.

Maybe we're at a point where the track record is good enough that trust has been established, maybe the shiny new toy is just too enticing, maybe it's Merchandising....but without a doubt people are clamoring for these sticks...

I don't think talk of a company's history is off topic, nor necessarily relevant to the physical product itself. It sure doesn't seem to be effecting the market majority.

 

[DanielB89]

Facebook mentality is really creeping its way onto this site. Sometimes it just feels like guys are looking for something to "pounce on". But instead of saying "I'm offended", it's "that might be unsafe".

I appreciate the concern, and a healthy suspicion of new products is totally warranted, but it does seem like people are jumping the gun. The damn sticks don't even exist yet, and its been nothing but how the roll pin will shear, you can't trust epoxy, I can't believe they're using titanium, etc.

Come on guys, at least wait until ANYONE has laid hands on these things.

no way! That would be too logical. Why can't we all criticize something we haven't held, touched, used, or even seen in person? Ridiculous to think that we couldn't do that.

 

[mattsteg]

What's on the horizon....

Titanium the wheelchair, titanium the road cycle, titanium the race car...titanium the climbing stick.

And the obligatory merchandising.... tethrd the saddle, tethrd the platform, tethrd the nation....

To be clear, I've no beef with Tethrd....just having some fun...but it's no fun when gear sold to hold someone in an elevated position fails to do so.

I don't know all the details of the past situation that's been brought up. I believe this to be true: 1st, you gotta have stuff that's reliable, second you gotta have folks' trust. I understand why it could be hard for folks to give their trust if there is a history, whether or not current stuff is reliable. So...in these cases a company has to work towards ancient history by establishing a good track record...and even then some folks aren't going to let go, nor do they have to.

Maybe we're at a point where the track record is good enough that trust has been established, maybe the shiny new toy is just too enticing, maybe it's Merchandising....but without a doubt people are clamoring for these sticks...

I don't think talk of a company's history is off topic, nor necessarily relevant to the physical product itself. It sure doesn't seem to be effecting the market majority.

To clarify - I don't have any expectation that the tethrd sticks would be worse than others on the market, or unsafe. I just find it hilarious that @MIbowhunter49 would appeal to the authority of tethrd on mechanical design while taking a shot at LWCG.

Tethrd has released a total of 3 rigid mechanical products (their lineup of saddles is irrelevant here as the expertise does not transfer). The first one failed (but wasn't recalled - tough to consider anything ancient history when there is still faulty product in the field). The second one was a quick brute-force strengthening of the first. The third was very close to a simple scale-up of the second. They're 0/1 on version 1.0 designs. Again - I do not have any expectation that there's anything wrong with the sticks at all, as far as sticks are concerned - but there isn't any particular reason to cheerlead for them other than Greg's marketing.

And I do hope that they pay @Sandor27 royalties, especially when labeling (what appear to be) his innovations as patent pending...

If I was in the market for a high end climbing stick, I'd strongly consider them.

 

[mattsteg]

no way! That would be too logical. Why can't we all criticize something we haven't held, touched, used, or even seen in person? Ridiculous to think that we couldn't do that.

Material properties aren't secret. The general design isn't a secret. We can surmise a LOT of the sticks characteristics based on what's disclosed. Not whether they're good of bad, but broad characteristics, where things might need to be done differently (e.g. aiders), where the material properties might offer different (not better or worse) characteristics like extra flex, etc.

 

[enkriss]

I imagine ONE day we will be able to buy them.

 

[MIbowhunter49]

Actually, pretty sure we've seen FEA results on an early prototype posted on this site.

And also plenty of actual engineers and fabricators commenting.

Link please.

For the record, I'm a mechanical engineer, too. And I'll be the first to admit that very little of my expertise applies in this case, and I'm operating off gut feeling/past experience. Most are doing the same, but they aren't going to admit it.

I work on electric power steering crap all day, and I'm a hell of a lot better at program management than I am "engineering" based on my jobs over the past 10 years. Being an engineer is overrated, and adds very little credibility. Just about as much as being a "fabricator". Then you factor in the fact that this is based off pictures and youtube clips, and you realize this is one of the stupidest social media discussions you've ever been a part of.

I need a drink.

 

[mattsteg]

Link please.

For the record, I'm a mechanical engineer, too. And I'll be the first to admit that very little of my expertise applies in this case, and I'm operating off gut feeling/past experience. Most are doing the same, but they aren't going to admit it.

I work on electric power steering crap all day, and I'm a hell of a lot better at program management than I am "engineering" based on my jobs over the past 10 years. Being an engineer is overrated, and adds very little credibility. Just about as much as being a "fabricator". Then you factor in the fact that this is based off pictures and youtube clips, and you realize this is one of the stupidest social media discussions you've ever been a part of.

I need a drink.

https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/diy-sub-1lb-climbing-stick-adventure.10467/ - there ya go.
I swear I see Tethrd's "patent pending" combined step/standoff and "patent-pending" "chemical weld" process in there too.

And I'll be the first to admit that very little of my expertise applies in this case, and I'm operating off gut feeling/past experience. Most are doing the same, but they aren't going to admit it.

Why are you assuming that tethrd is automatically not part of that "most"?

 

[Nutterbuster]

One, I'm with @mattsteg. Tethrd has a less than confidence-inspiring track record, and 2 years ago is hardly ancient history. I had a toddler showing me her different stuffed animals yesterday who is older than that company and who still struggles with the potty training issue occasionally. They don't have ancient history.

Two this ain't Facebook. Disagreement is not automatically disagreeable. Hearing things you do not agree with is not injurious to your health. I'm yet to read a "lol, bruh, you mad? Sorry momma missed you with the hanger and your dad thinks your an embarrassment" type post. Folks self police pretty well, and mods are pretty quick to step in if shots start landing below the belt.

Three, I'm not an engineer, but I've worked with, drank with, and been to the weddings of enough of them to acquire an opinion of them. Mechanical, civil, aerospace, automotive...they're all fallible. Even the good ones. The average engineer can be pretty dumb sometimes, and when you stop and think about how half of them are even dumber...

Four, I don't think folks are looking over these sticks just because they're Tethrd products. Our freeness with our discretionary income anytime we hear the word "lightweight" has incentivised manufacturers to churn out product as quickly as they can. Its easier to point out the few times they get it right the first time than the many times they screw it all up and we get to give them a nice little interest free loan for a few months and then field test their prototype for them.

A few if us are once (or twice or thrice) bit and a little shy.

 

[ajvandenbosch8]

. is no one else realizing how close the steps are to the tree??? After doing some measurements and calculating you will be lucky to get your big toe on that step...


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[Plebe]

. is no one else realizing how close the steps are to the tree??? After doing some measurements and calculating you will be lucky to get your big toe on that step...


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Ontariofarmer has brought it up several times in not so exaggerated terms.

 

[mattsteg]

Two this ain't Facebook. Disagreement is not automatically disagreeable. Hearing things you do not agree with is not injurious to your health.

In this very thread, "disagreement" about the product is mostly stuff like "I don't trust glue" followed by relevant "glue is all over the place, it's no biggie", "I don't trust a hollow pin" followed by "well actually, it's common to use a non-structural pin to hold things in place while glue sets".

You know - actual constructive discussion.

Three, I'm not an engineer, but I've worked with, drank with, and been to the weddings of enough of them to acquire an opinion of them. Mechanical, civil, aerospace, automotive...they're all fallible. Even the good ones. The average engineer can be pretty dumb sometimes, and when you stop and think about how half of them are even dumber...

100x this. I've come across a lot of bad engineers - and even good ones make mistakes! I've also taught (in mediocre at best fashion) deformable body mechanics at the university level. I fully appreciate how not-very-good at this stuff people can be and still operate as an engineering professional, and how easy it is to screw stuff up, overcomplicate it, or oversimplify it.

What do I trust? Well for starters data and transparent analysis of that data. Comparison to relevant data on similar uses of similar materials (e.g. bike frames using thin-wall round grade 9 titanium tubes are a pretty useful data point to climbing sticks using round thin-wall grade 9 titanium tubes. not perfect, but close enough to be useful). No one's napkin math from a handful of photos is gonna tell us if a stick is good/safe/durable (clearly the ONE sticks are in a practical range as illustrated by @Sandor27' and whether they're good or not is in the implementation) but it can give us a good idea of what to expect from a well-executed version of them, whether that's something we're interested in (e.g. @ajvandenbosch8 comment, and what sort of failure modes MIGHT occur if they're flyin' a bit close to the sun.

This isn't facebook. It's a site with a 50 pages of people doin' math on 6-in hunks of carbon fiber. (speaking of that, I bet we could get carbon bolts to pass the "rigorous" TMA standards for climbing stick testing with at most minor tweaks.

I don't trust engineers because they are engineers, or tethrd because they are tethrd. I trust some combination of track record and data analysis that I can audit and/or participate in.

And to be honest - what lit a fire under me to post in here was the attitude expressed to "just trust tethrd, don't bother discussing comparable uses of similar materials" plus "you're not gonna get a public beta, they're tethrd not XXXX" attitude. The appeal to an authority with a bad track record just kinda triggered me. I certainly don't want to overshadow futher constructive discussion of the product - like I'd mentioned if I was in the market they'd be on my shortlist.

 

[Plebe]

Ontariofarmer has brought it up several times in not so exaggerated terms.

For comparison, the 1 Stick specs 3.25".

Lone Wolf I measured at 4", Muddy Pro 4.25".

I've never stood on a stick with steps of 3.25" so I can't comment on how I'd like that with my big feet. I do like the combo standoff + step tai fighter shape and could see liking a larger version for me, personally.

 

[enkriss]

. is no one else realizing how close the steps are to the tree??? After doing some measurements and calculating you will be lucky to get your big toe on that step...


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I measured my beast sticks which are my absolute minimum for toe room to tree for me. They are 3.75” sitting on my desk to edge of step. 3.25” seems quite close and that’s an angled out step at its furthest point.

 

[ajvandenbosch8]

Ontariofarmer has brought it up several times in not so exaggerated terms.

I’m not exaggerating in the slightest...from the tip of my toe in a boot to the ball of my foot is over 3.25 inches... therefore like I said... you’ll barely be able to get your big toe on the step and that’s at the absolute farthest point from the tree


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[skyjacker]

Tethrd released a video yesterday showing some foot placement on the one stick. Looks like you really have to rely on the edges of that step.

 

[Weldabeast]

That doe at the 6:54 minute mark does not like the tether one sticks.....

 

[mattsteg]

That doe at the 7 minute mark does not like the tether one sticks.....

Maybe she hates titanium!

 

[TreeMunkie]

Probably the UV signature of the titanium spooking her.