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Saddle Death… Stay safe out there.

Deepest condolences to his family. We might never know everything that caused or contributed to the tragedy, but we do know it was due to an inversion.

Sincerely appreciate the wife for reaching out to the hunting community to help others, even while she is still grieving the loss of her husband. Not all would do the same.
 
The whole thing is a tragedy. Climbing is inherently dangerous and I think a lot of people have just assumed that hunting from an elevated platform is safe because it's popular. Being tethered to the tree might be safer than some methods, but it's never going to be safer than shooting from a ground blind (or just staying home).

I think we're all going to keep Dane in our thoughts as we climb this year. Stay safe everyone.
 
Prayers sent from here too…. Man, what a loss.
I’ve been trying to wrap my head around this whole thing too. Wish I knew the details of what happened.
 
Prayers and condolences for the family. This is a truly sad event. Not knowing the details but I almost have to believe he got tangled somehow.

I can say that I have been inverted a lot in my saddle. In fact I have some recurring sciatic nerve issues and I have a rope hanging in my basement I will sometimes hang from in my saddle and invert on purpose to stretch out my back and relieve the pressure. Its pretty easy for me to right myself as the bridge is still within reach at waist height and I can grasp it and "climb" up it to my tether. I'm an out of shape, overweight old guy and I have no problems righting myself. Now that said I have never banged my head or injured myself from the inversion.

I have however been embarrassingly hung up at low height twice with my feet caught in long aiders after a kickout. Bending the knee only drops the aider loop further onto the foot and stretching the leg tightens the aider to the bottom of the foot. Both times I barely managed to free myself but it took long enough that I considered yelling for assistance and had to fight the panic attack that goes along with being trapped. At height the scare factor would become even greater. This is the main reason I refuse to use multi-step aiders any more.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us, I hadn’t imagined this and am still trying to imagine what all it entailEd but want to do some research for my own peace of mind. Thanks again and so glad you overcame your experienc.
 
Prayers for his family, terrible to hear, and thankful for his wife for reaching out.

More speculation here, but i think it’s worth stating as a PSA based on some of the info we are hearing/seeing. it is surprisingly easy to grab a friction hitch from above, unweight, reload, and drop. In the drop, the instinct is to keep squeezing the hitch in a panic grip. You’ll notice most pros (e.g. NY Saddlehunter) always slam their weight into their rigs hands free multiple times before leaving the ground, but probably new guys don’t always remember this. And if you don’t stop immediately hands free, Choose a rappel method where you do. then practice letting go til it’s a habit. It has been stated here, static falls on short static rope, you can get a pretty bad shock just falling 4-5 feet, and there is a lot that can go wrong, from catching a climbing stick, back injury, etc. Keep in mind we’re usually rappelling alone in the dark, as well.
 
Your opening and closing paragraphs had me. I was truly invested but, you lost me at Staggs in the Wild. In my opinion, his opinions are wildly biased but are always presented as the end all truth. He seems like a nice guy and I’m sure he’s intelligent and kills big deer out in the Midwest, but I’m not a believer. I am glad that he has helped you along on your path for saddle hunting. Be safe and good luck this season

To each their own buddy. I’m not sure i would call Greg biased. He tests a lot of gear by many manufacturers because he’s asked to do so. He’s biased to one sticking, but we are all biased to the methods and any given set of gear we like.
Me personally. I feel one sticking is the safest option, if you use your lineman’s belt and tether to climb. I thinks it’s hard to argue to safety of repelling down regardless if you use a madrock, figure eight, or other approved method.
 
You're whole statement, unfortunately, has a ton of truth in it. I too believe we're going to hear about more accidents before we hear about them being far and few between. I pray I'm wrong.

This is my first year saddle hunting and I also opted to one stick instead of multiple sticks and such. But, I went through a massive amount of research and am fortunate enough to know Greg Staggs of Staggs in the Wild well. I talked to him in length many times and he helped get me setup properly, as well as talk to me through various nuances to the method. He is one of the very few on Youtube, or other forms of social media that I trust. He's a smart guy, knows the risks, etc., and he's willing to also put his son in a tree using this method.

I opted to use both my tether and linemans when going up the tree. I did not like the tether slack situation or the lack of being hands free to manipulate the tether, etc. I just feel better knowing i'm tied twice and feel that the linemans, as long as I do it properly, is going to put me into the tree and the tether will stop me, avoiding tether slack shock or hitting the ground.

There are far too many things I see on social media that scare the living hell out of me.

I think the bottom line with all of this is this. Know your gear inside and out. Understand what its capable of and use only climbing rated gear in the applications they were intended for. Back up as much of your system in a reasonable and again, safe way. Know your physical limitations. Don't kid yourself. If you're in doubt of something, seek expert advice. Plan for things going sideways or wrong and come up with systems to get you out of the tree safely. Think.. its not if it happens, its when it happens. Finally, and I feel perhaps as important as anything... inspect gear constantly. Get in the habit of looking at every life preserving piece of your kit. Knots, loops, carabiners, belay devices, ropes. All of it.

Be safe everyone.
I agree with everything you said, people need to be more careful out there.
 
Wait, you mean people with actual experience from industries/areas like climbing, mountaineering, and arborist where people have already died and there are actual companies that test using scientific methods and spec their products for very specific uses? I thought everyone on Youtube with zero actual training were the industry experts??? People should design things that don't break before putting them on the market and test them for more than 6 months????? And wait, selling them as what they are instead of "Positioning" aids???

This whole community, the manufacturers and the "youtube" hunters that all want to represent themselves as "expert" climbers with no actual certifications or experience need to pull their heads out of their asses, stand behind their products(when things go wrong, not just right), put safety first instead of publicity and money, and look to other industries that have been around for decades for guidance on protocol and best practices.

This is so sad that this accident happened and I dont want to take away from the accident, and the pain and sorrow it has caused his friends, family, and community. If the saddle hunting industry doesn't make a strong change in direction it is going to happen more. I miss the days of old TL saddles on ebay for hundreds of dollars and everyone wasn't drooling after the next "game Changer" that has been shoved down their throats by the marketing machine.
Should this site be held to the same standard? I’d venture to say the majority of saddle hunting info found on you tube originated from or was influenced by this site. Maybe red squirrel should go back and delete every thread on here that isn’t approved by mountaineering, arborist and other industry experts. Some of the sketchiest climbing methods I’ve ever seen originated from this site.
 
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Should this site be held to the same standard? I’d venture to say the majority of saddle hunting info found on you tube originated from this site. Maybe red squirrel should go back and delete every thread on here that isn’t approved by mountaineering, arborist and other industry experts. Some of the sketchiest climbing methods I’ve ever seen originated from this site.

i once posted a picture on here of how I hung my recurve bow in a tree, for the sake of conversation with another trad hunter. I took the picture while standing on the ground. The carabeaner on my tether wasn’t locked and one of the moderators kindly pointed this out, presumably to help generate awareness about safe climbing practices. Point being, this is a place where we discuss and share experiences, help eachother and learn together. I’m grateful to the saddlehunter Forum. This gentleman’s death is a horrible tradgdy - we owe it to him and his family to learn and grow from it.
 
i once posted a picture on here of how I hung my recurve bow in a tree, for the sake of conversation with another trad hunter. I took the picture while standing on the ground. The carabeaner on my tether wasn’t locked and one of the moderators kindly pointed this out, presumably to help generate awareness about safe climbing practices. Point being, this is a place where we discuss and share experiences, help eachother and learn together. I’m grateful to the saddlehunter Forum. This gentleman’s death is a horrible tradgdy - we owe it to him and his family to learn and grow from it.
I don’t have a problem with this site. I’m just wondering if Vtbow should hold the site to his standard. For example, should posts about the knaider/swaider exist on this site? There is no way that is industry approved, yet it influenced many people to do it.
 
I don’t have a problem with this site. I’m just wondering if Vtbow should hold the site to his standard. For example, should posts about the knaider/swaider exist on this site? There is no way that is industry approved, yet it influenced many people to do it.

Put up something sketchy on this site you will be guaranteed to get skewered and get hammered by multiple people until you sulk away to let that thread die off...
There are a couple people that openly use dental floss, paracord and bubble gum. But they admit openly that they are lucky with Darwin...
And "don't do as I do"disclaimers...
 
Put up something sketchy on this site you will be guaranteed to get skewered and get hammered by multiple people until you sulk away to let that thread die off...
There are a couple people that openly use dental floss, paracord and bubble gum. But they admit openly that they are lucky with Darwin...
And "don't do as I do"disclaimers...

i think leaving up the bad idea and then all of us criticizing it is BETTER than just disappearing it....that's because if someone gets the same idea then they can look it up and see all the negatives of it

any decent guide includes best practices and also practices to avoid

the way it functions is fine and otherwise we'd have another big brother-safety cop censoring things for us
 
quick and light climbing might be like light arrows.....for a while everyone was all about it/arrow speed.....there was eventually a swing towards heavy arrows.....and most people ended up settling in the middle
 
I just can't work out how hanging upside down was so rapidly lethal for him. 20 minutes is a very short amount of time. There are many examples of people being upside down for hours on end.

Including:

a 70 year old hunter who was upside down for two days in a treestand harness:


A roller coaster full of folks in Belgium all being upside down for 90 minutes straight with no issues:

Riders of Belgian roller coaster stuck upside down for 1 1/2 ...https://apnews.com › article

Many stories of cavers inverted for over a day

David Blaine hung upside down from his ankles in front of hundreds of people for 60 hours with short breaks for medical checks



It really makes me wonder if there was an underlying medical condition at play that made his inversion much worse for him.
 
The difference with here vs YouTube is there's a back and forth here. Stupid ideas generally get checked, quickly. I know because I've been on both sides of those exchanges. YouTube, however, you have to search for differing opinions, the monetization algorithm favors clickbait/extreme/risky/out there/cutting edge/stupid stuff so there's more of it there with less guard rails.

Just one dummy's opinion though.
 
I just can't work out how hanging upside down was so rapidly lethal for him. 20 minutes is a very short amount of time. There are many examples of people being upside down for hours on end.

Including:

a 70 year old hunter who was upside down for two days in a treestand harness:


A roller coaster full of folks in Belgium all being upside down for 90 minutes straight with no issues:

Riders of Belgian roller coaster stuck upside down for 1 1/2 ...https://apnews.com › article

Many stories of cavers inverted for over a day

David Blaine hung upside down from his ankles in front of hundreds of people for 60 hours with short breaks for medical checks



It really makes me wonder if there was an underlying medical condition at play that made his inversion much worse for him.
Likely Answer: body habitus. An overweight person hanging upside down has a lot more weight on their chest (particularly if their stomach is starting to turn into a pannus) than someone that looks like David Blaine. We have no idea if that 70 year old was able to do some half situps or what else as well, my guess is the gentleman here likely asphyxiated due to toouch physical pressure on his lungs, combined with panic and blood pooling in head. That's all guesses though. I am wholly impressed by his wife, coming back to Facebook multiple times to answer questions, not blame the gear manufacturers, and asking everyone to have empathy for the guy that found and tried to help her husband... Wow.
 
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I just can't work out how hanging upside down was so rapidly lethal for him. 20 minutes is a very short amount of time. There are many examples of people being upside down for hours on end.

Including:

a 70 year old hunter who was upside down for two days in a treestand harness:


A roller coaster full of folks in Belgium all being upside down for 90 minutes straight with no issues:

Riders of Belgian roller coaster stuck upside down for 1 1/2 ...https://apnews.com › article

Many stories of cavers inverted for over a day

David Blaine hung upside down from his ankles in front of hundreds of people for 60 hours with short breaks for medical checks



It really makes me wonder if there was an underlying medical condition at play that made his inversion much worse for him.
As you mentioned there may have been underlying medical conditions that also. prevented the lack of blood flow to the vital organ. Only an autopsy would determine the cause. Be careful and be prepared out there for the unexpected.
 
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