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Who Did Not Snort the Fairy Dust? And Why?

DroptineKrazy said:
That's a great attitude with the"if it ain't broke don't fix it" idea until you make a bad shot or the deer moves before the arrow gets there and you hit his shoulder or elsewhere that you didn't want to hit. Or your shot is deflected by a twig you didn't see. It hasn't happened to you yet but it will. You might start thinking then that it is broke and does need fixing. I'm not saying that your current set up will not be enough to compensate for that because you didn't share what your setup is but that stuff does happen and when it does then being "over arrowed" might just save the day.
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So I may have started watching some ranch fairy videos to get a better understanding of this thread and to further my archery knowledge in general. I also measured my arrows two different ways, I looked up the grains per inch, added insert weight, and broad head. I also just weighed it on a kitchen scale that measures grams and converted it to grains. I came up with 428 and 432 respectively, call it 430. So that’s what they weigh, I think... forgive my ignorance but I don’t know if there is anything that goes into what a setup entails.
 
I must be the only one who does it the old school way of actually finding the balance point of the arrow and plugging those measurements into the equation to come up with FOC%. Call me a dinosaur, but I'm better with a tape measure than I am with technology. :tonguewink:
 
slonstdy said:
I must be the only one who does it the old school way of actually finding the balance point of the arrow and plugging those measurements into the equation to come up with FOC%. Call me a dinosaur, but I'm better with a tape measure than I am with technology. :tonguewink:
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i think 90% of folks don’t actually understand what FOC is, or rather, what it measures. If everyone ran the measurements manually like you, and performed the calculation, it wouldprobably be very beneficial to the conversations on the topic.

I support you sir!
 
slonstdy said:
I must be the only one who does it the old school way of actually finding the balance point of the arrow and plugging those measurements into the equation to come up with FOC%. Call me a dinosaur, but I'm better with a tape measure than I am with technology. :tonguewink:
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Technology is my job and that is how I did it too. Simple and “real” numbers!
 
It’s interesting the forum dialogue on EFOC arrows here vs on the Rokslide forum. Not dissing this forum as I love it just as much, but the majority of Rokslide responses are of a ‘who cares, just shoot a well tuned bow that you are accurate with and shoot a lot.’ There are many on Rokslide who have heavy arrow builds, but the conversation is never as intense as on here. Just an observation. I’m hoping we are getting out and hunting more than we are debating ;).
 
JakeFromVirginia said:
It’s interesting the forum dialogue on EFOC arrows here vs on the Rokslide forum. Not dissing this forum as I love it just as much, but the majority of Rokslide responses are of a ‘who cares, just shoot a well tuned bow that you are accurate with and shoot a lot.’ There are many on Rokslide who have heavy arrow builds, but the conversation is never as intense as on here. Just an observation. I’m hoping we are getting out and hunting more than we are debating ;).
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It seems like western, ground hunters that are more likely to take longer shots are less likely to dabble in the dust. As far as I can tell, Rokslide attracts more mule deer/elk hunters and we are mostly whitetail here.
 
raisins said:
It seems like western, ground hunters that are more likely to take longer shots are less likely to dabble in the dust. As far as I can tell, Rokslide attracts more mule deer/elk hunters and we are mostly whitetail here.
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agree it’s definitely for western big game hunting, but that is who I’d give more weight to on opinions of heavy arrow necessity and high FOC since they are taking longer shots and bigger game animals...

here’s what I don’t understand with RF method, if you are going to go with a heavy arrow and only expect to shoot <20 yards ever, why not just shoot a recurve bow? Wouldn’t it be cheaper? A compound bow was designed to have faster arrows for flatter trajectory for better accuracy longer distances. So why spend a lot of money on a very complex piece of equipment, to make it do what it wasn’t really designed to do?

that’s a genuine question - not a ridicule - curious the thoughts on it.
 
JakeFromVirginia said:
agree it’s definitely for western big game hunting, but that is who I’d give more weight to on opinions of heavy arrow necessity and high FOC since they are taking longer shots and bigger game animals...

here’s what I don’t understand with RF method, if you are going to go with a heavy arrow and only expect to shoot <20 yards ever, why not just shoot a recurve bow? Wouldn’t it be cheaper? A compound bow was designed to have faster arrows for flatter trajectory for better accuracy longer distances. So why spend a lot of money on a very complex piece of equipment, to make it do what it wasn’t really designed to do?

that’s a genuine question - not a ridicule - curious the thoughts on it.
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Recurves are more expensive than compound bows. A Martin Hunter (good but average and not custom) bow is 900 bucks. The average custom recurve is probably 1500 now.

Here's an example of a semi custom bow that can be had off the shelf and is well regarded.

Stock Bows - Bob Lee Bows Recurves and Longbows

bobleebows.com bobleebows.com
 
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JakeFromVirginia said:
agree it’s definitely for western big game hunting, but that is who I’d give more weight to on opinions of heavy arrow necessity and high FOC since they are taking longer shots and bigger game animals...

here’s what I don’t understand with RF method, if you are going to go with a heavy arrow and only expect to shoot <20 yards ever, why not just shoot a recurve bow? Wouldn’t it be cheaper? A compound bow was designed to have faster arrows for flatter trajectory for better accuracy longer distances. So why spend a lot of money on a very complex piece of equipment, to make it do what it wasn’t really designed to do?

that’s a genuine question - not a ridicule - curious the thoughts on it.
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As said above, a recurve isn't necessarily cheaper. And the time to get it shooting properly, and select arrows and components, is significant.

You can buy a walmart bow, follow this thread's advice The everyman's guide to killing a deer with a compound bow... | saddlehunter.com watch a couple youtube videos on how to shoot a compound bow, and be able to stack arrows in a 4" circle from 30 yards all day every day. Then put your bow down and two months later repeat that.

A recurve you'll have to shoot on the regular to be proficient.


Also, no one person or concept or theme or premise is responsible for the compound bows of today. So to YOU they may have that purpose of being able to shoot farther faster more accurately.

For me, it's the amount of energy the bow can produce, relative to how much draw weight I have to hold. Deer don't want to die, and they are unpredictable. Sometimes I need to hold at full draw for 5 seconds, sometimes five minutes.

Trajectory comes into play in open country, because you can range an animal, and it may move a yard or two. At 25 yards, no big deal. At 65 yards, it's a big deal. I shoot 600gr arrows out of a 76lb/30.5" draw bow for western hunting. I could improve my trajectory by going to a 500gr arrow. It's a nuanced detailed decision each hunter makes. There's tradeoffs in any direction.

Lots of folks seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the physics underlying all of this. It's a very brawndo/what plants crave debate.
 
Holy cow never knew recurves were so expensive!! I know they are harder to shoot but I assumed under 20 wasn’t unreasonable to get to with practice. I’ve only shot one once so not an expert by any means. Interesting...
 
JakeFromVirginia said:
Holy cow never knew recurves were so expensive!! I know they are harder to shoot but I assumed under 20 wasn’t unreasonable to get to with practice. I’ve only shot one once so not an expert by any means. Interesting...
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For me, they are about 10 times harder to shoot than a compound and you lose the skill quickly if you don't shoot regularly. Maybe I'm slow and goody, but it took me over a year to reliably hit a 3D target in the vitals at 25 yards. I stopped hunting with a recurve and went back to a compound because at over 15 yards the nerves of having a deer present would make me not shoot up to the standard I wanted to achieve.

Building them requires a lot of handwork and the people that make them to order are artisans. So, you are paying a US based artisan for his labor, materials, etc.
 
Not hard to set up and tune a recurve and you can actually get a very nice custom for under a grand. I could name 10 or more. The issue is the shooter, if you ever go to a traditional shoot I am sorry to say most guys suck. I would say maybe 3 in ten should actually be hunting with them. If they keep their shots 15 yards and in than maybe 5 in 10. I will also say this you can get set up and shooting traditonal for around 300 bucks.. That is a dozen arrows, tab or glove and a Black Rock recurve or Samick Sage, a pharoah a bunch of chinese made bows on Amazon or e-bay that actually shoot as well as the shooter is up too. Shawn
 
I bought a fishing recurve last year and recently took all the fish stuff off and started shooting my hunting arrows. Compound is way easier to learn and be on target faster... I'm still not confident to hunt with stick bow but it's fun to shoot.... To me the compound advantages are being able to stay at full draw for extended periods of time and more compact and easier to maneuver.....I have my bow turned down to girly poundage and love it compared to having it up at 70pds. IMO the advantages of an Ashby approved arrow out way the disadvantages...I read as much as I could getting informed on the topic, tested, tinkered, and knew the disadvantages before diving in. Life's a compromise. 2 bonks with "flappers and twizzlers" and I knew I needed to figure something else out. Efoc like having a giant weenier.... U can get away with half stroke majority of the time....but knowing u got more makes u feel better
 
Ill try to be concise with my "Fairy Dust" journey.
Bought a new to me Matthews Switchback this year from a friend, got a good deal, 300 for bow, arrows, case, release etc. Arrows were 400 spine, 100 grains up front. Shot fast, shot okay. Throw a broadhead on there, arrow wanders off target.....2 or 3 inches in any direction.

Watch THP, see Ranch Fairy, do the research, understanding momentum and energy, this makes some sense to me.

Start testing.....take fletchings off 400 spine arrows....shoot....8 inch tear. Tinker, tinker tinker, lots of different spines, lots of different weights. End up with 250 spine, 250 grains up front, 30 inches making absolute bullet holes in the paper. Nock tune, add fletchings, test with my broadheads.......end up blowing an arrow right through my target, buried up to the nock.

I focused on proper arrow flight, let the weight of the arrow end up wherever it ends up. Ended up with a 30" 600 grain arrow, 250 spine, with 250 grains up front. yeah my pins are spread out a bit, I can only shoot to 40 yards, but I wont have shots over that where I am at anyways (Southeast CT).

now I just need a deer to test it on. Was a tough year for public land here. Coyotes are absolutely out of control here, and I was on the ground this season, which ruined the 3 opportunities for shots I had, due to limbs/trees being in the way.
 
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