Tethers@Red Beard you mentioned in a previous post that you no longer rappel down. How are you getting down now?
Tethers@Red Beard you mentioned in a previous post that you no longer rappel down. How are you getting down now?
When someone says stuff like, this is why I am going go back to sticks, or this is why I don’t rope climb, they are essentially saying the same thing, at least how I interpret it. I wasn’t pointing anyone out specifically, but comments similar to this have already been made. Along with this I also think we would benefit from NOT being so vague. When someone says, “that’s bad, or that’s unsafe, or this is safe,” if it is not followed by an explanation of what makes it safe or unsafe it really doesn’t benefit anyone at all, and only adds to the confusion. Vague comments like that can instill unreasonable confidence as well as unreasonable fear.Did someone say this "someone died rope climbing therefore climbing sticks are safe..." somewhere or are you just preemptively stating we shouldn't fall into this argument? Because I would 100% agree with you. As someone who climbs exclusively with sticks, there is nothing innately safer with them versus other methods. Familiarity and confidence play a big factor in this particular risk assessment. Also, just because a single facet is true concerning one method, does not automatically mean the same facet is not true pertaining to another (e.g., no mutual exclusivity between safety of JRB and climbing sticks).
When someone says stuff like, this is why I am going go back to sticks, or this is why I don’t rope climb, they are essentially saying the same thing, at least how I interpret it. I wasn’t pointing anyone out specifically, but comments similar to this have already been made. Along with this I also think we would benefit from NOT being so vague. When someone says, “that’s bad, or that’s unsafe, or this is safe,” if it is not followed by an explanation of what makes it safe or unsafe it really doesn’t benefit anyone at all, and only adds to the confusion. Vague comments like that can instill unreasonable confidence as well as unreasonable fear.
So correct me if I'm wrong. He was testing a new saddle (Dryad) , He was using JRB ascending / descending system. He was close to ground level. His wife feels that a knife could have saved his life. He was in trouble for at least 20 minutes. Are there more facts that we know of?
Was that correction for me?I’m encouraged that Danes wife has been so transparent in not wanting others to face a similar outcome! Also am thankful for the introspection for all who read this & evaluate their process & personal risk. Out of respect for her loss & his life can we refrain from some of the personal details of this tragedy. This is out there for public consumption & there are going to be details that are unknown, that’s ok. I’d prefer a description of what went wrong by someone that knows rather that pictures after the fact. The short version is you leave the ground & aren’t familiar or capable with your chosen method it can have a terrible outcome & impact others. Not calling anyone out let’s be a bit sensitive of the content/conversation……
I’m encouraged that Danes wife has been so transparent in not wanting others to face a similar outcome! Also am thankful for the introspection for all who read this & evaluate their process & personal risk. Out of respect for her loss & his life can we refrain from some of the personal details of this tragedy. This is out there for public consumption & there are going to be details that are unknown, that’s ok. I’d prefer a description of what went wrong by someone that knows rather that pictures after the fact. The short version is you leave the ground & aren’t familiar or capable with your chosen method it can have a terrible outcome & impact others. Not calling anyone out let’s be a bit sensitive of the content/conversation……
My thought process is if she felt that a knife could have saved him and that he was near ground level than his stick( if he was using one) would have still been on the tree. And near ground level is a relative term. Could be 10 feet up or 3 feet up. Maybe the knife was to free his foot so he could get up righted and wouldn't involve cutting the rope he was hanging from. Used to cut whatever his foot was hung in. so many things can go wrong even if your practicing at near ground levelIt was not confirmed that he was JRBing. She posted on multiple Facebook groups that he belong to to get the words out, one of the group is JRB Climbing.
Just initial scan of his public posting, seem like the was one sticking in the past. So he might of been trying out the JRB for upcoming? Either way it was some method that must of required rappelling down. Or else the hunter that came to his assistance might of just use the stick he was using to help?
My comment here isn’t value add… but man the closer to the ground this situation was, it’s just that much more unexpected, sad, and cautionary.My thought process is if she felt that a knife could have saved him and that he was near ground level than his stick( if he was using one) would have still been on the tree. And near ground level is a relative term. Could be 10 feet up or 3 feet up. Maybe the knife was to free his foot so he could get up righted and wouldn't involve cutting the rope he was hanging from. Used to cut whatever his foot was hung in. so many things can go wrong even if your practicing at near ground level
Nope, just in general. I wouldn’t want my wife reading some of this stuff while grieving if the scenario was reversed……..Was that correction for me?
For those in the rock climbing community, when there is a fatality, how does information related to it get processed and shared, to improve practice?
I keep hearing us say "we'll never know", but that is unacceptable to me. We HAVE to know. This thread is, understandably, so full of speculation and assumptions.
Since we all guess at the causes and circumstances, we then guess at the solutions and improved safety techniques. I can't imagine the rock cimbing community/industry responds to a fatality with guesses. All safety improvement is good, but we don't add more airbags to cars when someone dies falling down a set of stairs. You laser in on what caused the fall and death and work to fix that specific issue.
Our hearts all break for the family, and we implore each other to be "safe"...but it is entirely unclear why our colleague was being unsafe, beyond the general risk of tree climbing. In fact all I know is that he purportedly was heavily involved in a sub community that is designed to improve the safety of climbing trees. A community in which a recently stated goal is to reduce risk to 1 in a million. What a terribly ironic tragedy.
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So correct me if I'm wrong. He was testing a new saddle (Dryad) , He was using JRB ascending / descending system. He was close to ground level. His wife feels that a knife could have saved his life. He was in trouble for at least 20 minutes. Are there more facts that we know of?
This to me is pertinent! Practicing a new system or even new saddle for the first time all alone, and in the woods no less is something that's just not smart. It may seem you have no choice and like the privacy of the woods, but there's gotta be a way to be near someone when testing new stuff and methods! I know I'll be more aware of this in my future endeavors!Mrs. Purcell detailed on Facebook that he was testing out his new Dryad saddle for 1st or 2nd time. That he was only a few feet from the ground. The other hunter was actually able to try to push him up a little to try to release pressure but was not able to. That's why she recommends carrying knife. Because at that height it cutting make sense.
Hmm....all speculations here. But if he was using the Drey's harness for any type of rope climbing, l highly recommend against that.
^^^ all this! I said that when guys were using videos and trying to learn to use climbing hooks to climb. There is a skill and technique involved, one toe pointing downward and you goWhat can and should be concluded from all this discussion is something I have tried to hit home for a while and I believe has landed on deaf ears:
Technical skills which can lead to yours or others death or serious injury should not be taught through videos, especially as a primary learning source. Experiential education and on-site, hands on learning from trained individuals is the only right way.
The originators of the videos do not know the audience's skill level they are teaching...it could be someone who never has had a harness on in their life, or a 5.10 climber looking to hone their skills. In person lessons can be tweaked and changed for audiences, or prequisite skills tests required. I don't believe you will find a certified instructor "teaching" this level of technical skills in a youtube video. It would be negligent of them to do so in a non-controlled environment where they can't immediately correct their students.
Sticks may not be safer for someone who is skilled and knowledgeable, but the average individual already has the skills to climb a ladder...they have a lot less new skills to learn to climb and descend in the safest manner possible.
How in the heck did you survive hanging upside down for 4 1/2 hours?Christmas morning 09 i had a climbing stand accident,hung upside down for 4 1/2 hrs. Not a day goes by that i dont think about my accident, Prayers for the family.
The theory is some people can survive up to 14 hours inverted. I’m assuming those people are super skinny and fit. But 14 hours is the maximum estimated survival time based on studiesHow in the heck did you survive hanging upside down for 4 1/2 hours?